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Thread: This Feels Like the End for Chris Kreider and the Rangers

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    "It’s very dangerous when players lose hope,” Davidson said.

    Another bad season and you could, potentially, be developing a losing culture.
    The rangers are improving either way. To think that next season is the finishing touches on a rebuild is ridiculous. They can put a better team out there without panarin or kreider next year. They would also have plenty of cap space to make improvements down the line.

    There is a middle lane here. Unbeknownst to many here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    The rangers are improving either way. To think that next season is the finishing touches on a rebuild is ridiculous. They can put a better team out there without panarin or kreider next year. They would also have plenty of cap space to make improvements down the line.

    There is a middle lane here. Unbeknownst to many here.
    Of course the rebuild isn't going to be complete this year. The team does need to keep improving though. Being near the bottom of the league again in my opinion really isn't acceptable, but it's ok to not make the playoffs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    The rangers are improving either way. To think that next season is the finishing touches on a rebuild is ridiculous. They can put a better team out there without panarin or kreider next year. They would also have plenty of cap space to make improvements down the line.

    There is a middle lane here. Unbeknownst to many here.
    Why is that ridiculous? Next season they are going to be competitive. Maybe not necessarily a playoff team but certainly heading in that direction. By 20-21 I think this team is very dangerous (obviously projecting our assets all to be what we and management think they are).

    At this point, we all know how you feel about adding Panarin...this doesn't mean you are right and you don't have to add stuff to the end of your posts trying to show that you're smarter than everyone else.

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    Put me in the category of people that could go either way on this. On the one hand, I think he's finally coming in to his own and could be dangerous with Zib for several years. You can't expect to be competitive, which we want to be regardless of the rebuild, and then trade one of your only sure things and a leader on this team.

    On the other hand, if a trade in to the top 5, or even the top 10, to nab one of those big time centers, I think we need that way more than we need another winger who's going to be very costly. Also, he's likely going to command $7 mil on the market and I'd rather be spending that on anything other than "bridge deals" for our younger players.
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    I see next season as a growing year. There's still an absolute ass-load of work to do with some of the dinosaurs we currently have on the roster. Add in the fact that we have a pretty good load of young players that need to strut their shit as well pretty soon.

    We have to do something with Smith
    Shatty has to show us what he's got this year
    Kreider obviously needs some attention
    Staal is getting ready to be put out to pasture
    Hank is getting long in tooth

    Also there are players on the roster that need to be addressed like Vesey, and the rest of that /YAWN "bottom six".

    That being said, I'm not even looking at the playoffs. Trouba is a great add that was a tremendous shot in the arm for the rebuild, and the reason they need him long term in my opinion, is because they know that this team is going to need 2 more seasons to get where it needs to be. An absolute fuck ton of cash comes off the books after 2020, and I think that's where the Rangers will strike HUGE in free agency....not really this year. But I would like to watch these kids grow together and become a "team" over the next 2 years without any expectations more than "just play hard, and gimme 100% every night".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    I see next season as a growing year. There's still an absolute ass-load of work to do with some of the dinosaurs we currently have on the roster. Add in the fact that we have a pretty good load of young players that need to strut their shit as well pretty soon.

    We have to do something with Smith
    Shatty has to show us what he's got this year
    Kreider obviously needs some attention
    Staal is getting ready to be put out to pasture
    Hank is getting long in tooth

    Also there are players on the roster that need to be addressed like Vesey, and the rest of that /YAWN "bottom six".

    That being said, I'm not even looking at the playoffs. Trouba is a great add that was a tremendous shot in the arm for the rebuild, and the reason they need him long term in my opinion, is because they know that this team is going to need 2 more seasons to get where it needs to be. An absolute fuck ton of cash comes off the books after 2020, and I think that's where the Rangers will strike HUGE in free agency....not really this year. But I would like to watch these kids grow together and become a "team" over the next 2 years without any expectations more than "just play hard, and gimme 100% every night".
    https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2021

    That's a list of the possible UFA's that hit the market next season. Outside of Taylor Hall, there isn't anyone like Panarin on the list. In fact, there's very few under 30. What are the chances that Hall even makes it to UFA at the end of the year? What are the odds that he would want to even play here?

    We have an opportunity to add a stud like Panarin this season without shedding more assets. It's been well documented that he is interested in coming here. I don't think you can pass on this opportunity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJWantsTheCup View Post
    Of course the rebuild isn't going to be complete this year. The team does need to keep improving though. Being near the bottom of the league again in my opinion really isn't acceptable, but it's ok to not make the playoffs.
    The team is already improved with doing nothing else but adding Kakko. How much they improve and how quick this rebuild comes to an end will depend on the development of the kids, not what ufa they sign. The ufas will help speed it up but without the kids it’s all for naught. Which takes me to my opinion on Panarin. Signing him is great but if Anderson, chytil, Howden, their entire defense, etc don’t become what we hope than the rangers are still searching for that contending team with less flexibility

    I like the idea of a panarin type, I just don’t like the timing. I think it assumes to much about what they have, when they’d be better served waiting and seeing what they need. Top line wings don’t seem to be in short supply for this team. Defense and center are what worry me no less goaltending.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2021

    That's a list of the possible UFA's that hit the market next season. Outside of Taylor Hall, there isn't anyone like Panarin on the list. In fact, there's very few under 30. What are the chances that Hall even makes it to UFA at the end of the year? What are the odds that he would want to even play here?

    We have an opportunity to add a stud like Panarin this season without shedding more assets. It's been well documented that he is interested in coming here. I don't think you can pass on this opportunity.
    I hear ya Kev...I'm not discounting Panarin...it's just that they've preached this "Stay the course" mentality, and have sold us on the whole rebuild is going to be "a while", that the idea of Panarin, as enticing as it may sound, quite frankly goes against everything they've said so far (Gorton/JD).

    I'm not against bringing in a player like that, but I just don't see them doing that. On the flip side, I didn't see the Trouba thing either, but after knowing the reasons and what the dire needs of this team were on defense for the coming decade, it makes a ton of sense for a Trouba.

    Panarin?? we'll see man...

  9. #49
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    With Trouba, fox, kakko and panarin this is a playoff team next season (as is) Without panarin I donít think they are. They need scoring at this point.

    Itís a high price to pay for one player but at least heís still young.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Lothbrok View Post
    Put me in the category of people that could go either way on this. On the one hand, I think he's finally coming in to his own and could be dangerous with Zib for several years. You can't expect to be competitive, which we want to be regardless of the rebuild, and then trade one of your only sure things and a leader on this team.

    On the other hand, if a trade in to the top 5, or even the top 10, to nab one of those big time centers, I think we need that way more than we need another winger who's going to be very costly. Also, he's likely going to command $7 mil on the market and I'd rather be spending that on anything other than "bridge deals" for our younger players.
    Put me in this camp also. I can see a plan with Kreider and without him. I have really enjoyed watching and rooting for him and know he will be valuable asset to someone going forward. I just want Gorton/JD to make up their minds now and pull the trigger, yea or nay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by So Nashty View Post
    With Trouba, fox, kakko and panarin this is a playoff team next season (as is) Without panarin I don’t think they are. They need scoring at this point.

    It’s a high price to pay for one player but at least he’s still young.


    Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk
    I'm still not sure they're a playoff team with Panarin with all the young guys but they are certainly better. I'm also not saying that they couldn't still win in the future without adding Panarin but having a guy like him possibly available to add to this team is a no-brainer to me.

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    Kev, the only problem that I'm afraid of with Panarin is the fact that after Kakko's ELC is up, we're going to have to break the bank to sign him long term. With Trouba, Panarin and possibly Kreider and whomever else tagging the books like that, it leaves little to no room for future picks/players to sign.

    I hear the no brainer theory, but I don't think Panarin is the right type that wins us a cup. I think, (and this may just be me) that our glaring weakness for the immediate future is going to be our Center position and Defense, which has just been upgraded a bit. But there's plenty of room for improvement.

    We're also going to have some growing pains in goal for a little while as Shesty gets acclimated to the NHL I believe.

    I'd really just rather see Gorton/JD unload the crap that has accumulated over the years, let these old vets that have outplayed their usefulness get off the books and build it HIS way...with his own players that he's drafted/acquired. I think Panarin is a very good player as well, but hogging up 12 million in cap space for the next 7+ years is really going to hinder any moves, acquisitions, and resigning of ELC's.

    Again that just my take, dude.

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    I would be surprised if the Rangers acquire anymore defensemen at this point. In my opinion the objective should be to get a #2 center unless the Devils don't take Hughes and to shed some salary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    Kev, the only problem that I'm afraid of with Panarin is the fact that after Kakko's ELC is up, we're going to have to break the bank to sign him long term. With Trouba, Panarin and possibly Kreider and whomever else tagging the books like that, it leaves little to no room for future picks/players to sign.

    I hear the no brainer theory, but I don't think Panarin is the right type that wins us a cup. I think, (and this may just be me) that our glaring weakness for the immediate future is going to be our Center position and Defense, which has just been upgraded a bit. But there's plenty of room for improvement.

    We're also going to have some growing pains in goal for a little while as Shesty gets acclimated to the NHL I believe.

    I'd really just rather see Gorton/JD unload the crap that has accumulated over the years, let these old vets that have outplayed their usefulness get off the books and build it HIS way...with his own players that he's drafted/acquired. I think Panarin is a very good player as well, but hogging up 12 million in cap space for the next 7+ years is really going to hinder any moves, acquisitions, and resigning of ELC's.

    Again that just my take, dude.
    I hope that's the case! That means he's met all of our expectations. That's a long way down the road, however, and we'll have shed Hank's, Staal's, Smith's, and Shat's contracts by then. Plus you would assume by that point the salary cap will continue to go up which would level out Panarin's deal a bit.

    Clearly you (and Francesa) and I are of different minds when it comes to Panarin's value. He came into the league a little more seasoned than most rookies but adjusted very well and won the rookie of the year. Got even better the next season with Chicago which I thought might have been a byproduct of playing with Kane, Toews, and company. Gets traded to Columbus, where he's not surrounded by anywhere near that talent and gets even better! This guy is consistently a PPG player. He even has done that in the playoffs! Clearly, he's not fazed with changing teams or changing roles. He just knows how to play hockey at an elite level.

    The cost for him will be steep in terms of finances but it won't be steep in terms of value. This guy is a stud. Plain and simple.

    And to address your points about the question marks with Shesty and some of the other young guys, isn't it better to have someone like Panarin that you know you can count on game in and game out while the youngsters are going through their growing pains?

    I have your same concerns with the center spot though. That's why, even though I like CK a lot, I'd be okay with trading him if you can bring in a guy like Kadri to take on the 2C role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by So Nashty View Post
    With Trouba, fox, kakko and panarin this is a playoff team next season (as is) Without panarin I donít think they are. They need scoring at this point.

    Itís a high price to pay for one player but at least heís still young.


    Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk
    I'm with you Nashty and Kevin. This team has needed a marquee player. Someone who's in the top 20 for goals/points and management stated something to that effect. Panarin is a perfect option, especially with all his comrades coming here. Without a Panarin the team will continue in rebuild mediocrity. And while I understand if Kreider gets traded, I don't think it's wise to do so. How many goals did the Rangers score this past season because of his screen? He got no credit, but without him there many goals don't go in. A week or two after Kreider left with his blood clot the Rangers sent their letter. I wrote on the Rangers website that their chances for a cup were really poor and with Kreider out the team looked defeated and their chances were zilch at that point. The letter soon followed. Kreider is the example of what you want in today's NHL, speed, size, goals, netfront presence, leadership on and off the ice. All those things in one player ain't easy to find. JG should find a way to sign Kreider AND Panarin. It's just about money so find a way to make it happen. Panarin is the big must and Kreider is the hope so.
    Last edited by CBrowningPI; 06-21-2019 at 12:54 PM.

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    Zibanejad will need a huge raise as well then too

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    I hope that's the case! That means he's met all of our expectations. That's a long way down the road, however, and we'll have shed Hank's, Staal's, Smith's, and Shat's contracts by then. Plus you would assume by that point the salary cap will continue to go up which would level out Panarin's deal a bit.

    Clearly you (and Francesa) and I are of different minds when it comes to Panarin's value. He came into the league a little more seasoned than most rookies but adjusted very well and won the rookie of the year. Got even better the next season with Chicago which I thought might have been a byproduct of playing with Kane, Toews, and company. Gets traded to Columbus, where he's not surrounded by anywhere near that talent and gets even better! This guy is consistently a PPG player. He even has done that in the playoffs! Clearly, he's not fazed with changing teams or changing roles. He just knows how to play hockey at an elite level.

    The cost for him will be steep in terms of finances but it won't be steep in terms of value. This guy is a stud. Plain and simple.

    And to address your points about the question marks with Shesty and some of the other young guys, isn't it better to have someone like Panarin that you know you can count on game in and game out while the youngsters are going through their growing pains?

    I have your same concerns with the center spot though. That's why, even though I like CK a lot, I'd be okay with trading him if you can bring in a guy like Kadri to take on the 2C role.
    Oh believe me, I see your points and you've been spot on in your assessments of Panarin. The guy is a stud, and I wouldn't have an issue with him being here at all. But the question you ask above is probably better suited for Gorton/JD. That's the GM question that drives them to make these deals, and to tell you quite honestly Kev...I WISH I knew the answer to that one!!

    I suppose we'll find out the answer very soon though. It's actually fortunate to be in a position to be able to confront that type of free agency issue these days!

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Zibanejad will need a huge raise as well then too
    No, he'll be in his late 20s. We'll have to trade him.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    No, he'll be in his late 20s. We'll have to trade him.
    Because we might need cap space in 3 years if all our youngsters pan out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    No, he'll be in his late 20s. We'll have to trade him.
    why wait? trade him now and sign Panarin

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