Page 2 of 13 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 244

Thread: This Feels Like the End for Chris Kreider and the Rangers

  1. #21
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division
    Sod16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    725
    Rep Power
    22
    Is this organization going to trade every quality 26 to 28 year old player when he is within a year of a new contract? Sure seems that way. As Brooks points out, do you really want to field a team of 22 year olds? I'm afraid there haven't been substantive discussion of numbers with Kreider's agent because everyone knows, within a narrow span, what his next contract is going to look like: six years at seven per. I guess Gorton doesn't want to pay that.

  2. #22
    Senior Member BSBH Prospect
    ThirtyONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    11,668
    Rep Power
    133
    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    No GM in the league, or in any sport, gives a player term for what they have done. Sometimes, they add years beyond when they think a player will be as effective because that's just what it costs to sign a guy.

    Yes, I think he can be a 25-30 goal player at 33. He's not the type who has a game that is just going to fall off a cliff at 30 because, despite all his physical tools, he doesn't depend on them. I think he's too cerebral, but because he thinks the game and does all his scoring at the front of the net, I don't see why his scoring would just disappear. He's very much like Joe Pavelski, in that way. If he was the player I'd like him to be (~23 goals and just wrecking shit all the time), I wouldn't say the same.

    Carl Hagelin just got ~$4m and hasn't scored even 30 points since 2016. The $1m/10 points rule isn't real. Also, Kreider has had over 50 points in 2 of his last 3 seasons, and paced 50 the year he got hurt. As a UFA, that puts him at at least $6m all day.
    A couple of things here:

    GMs pay for past accomplishments all the time -- in every sport. Karlsson was just paid the biggest contract of his life yet nobody thinks he's about to suddenly become a better hockey player at the age of 29. Certainly, nobody thinks he'll be even as good as he is now 8 years in the future, at 37. They're paying him for what he's done, not what he's going to become. Scientifically speaking, he's peaked. He'll likely have a few years of plateau if the Sharks are lucky but he's going to become a slower, less valuable player over the course of this contract.

    My second point of contention is that he's nothing like Joe Pavelski. He may score goals in front of the net but that's where the similarities ends. Joe Pavelski has been a goal scorer his whole career. And I don't mean almost 30 goals twice. I mean double what Kreider has achieved for 10 years running. If Kreider was putting up 30-40 goals a year, I'd have an easier time overpaying him, because even if he declined or lost a step, you'd assume he could still put up 20-30.

    I'm not saying Kreider isn't worth $6m on the market. Kevin Hayes is worth $7m on the market. Carl Hagelin is worth $4m. The market is whatever someone pays. That doesn't mean that's a good buy. My point is, we don't need to be the team that pays 6 x 6.5, as you suggest, for a 50 point player when we can skip that middle ground of mediocrity entirely. I'd much rather pay Pavelski or Panarin more money to be more effective.

    You have to also think too: we're assuming Kakko will be a franchise player. Franchise players might be making 12 million in 3 years. Kravstov might be an incredible player, He might be making 9-10 million in 3 years. Panarin might be on the team, making 11 million in three years. At that point Kreider is 31 taking up a chunk of cap that makes little sense to me.

    If Kreider wants to stay, I'm fine with it, so long as it's under 6. Anything else and he's not worth the headache.
    Last edited by ThirtyONE; 06-20-2019 at 04:47 PM.
    GORTON 2020

  3. #23
    Senior Member BSBH Prospect
    ThirtyONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    11,668
    Rep Power
    133
    Quote Originally Posted by Sod16 View Post
    Is this organization going to trade every quality 26 to 28 year old player when he is within a year of a new contract? Sure seems that way. As Brooks points out, do you really want to field a team of 22 year olds? I'm afraid there haven't been substantive discussion of numbers with Kreider's agent because everyone knows, within a narrow span, what his next contract is going to look like: six years at seven per. I guess Gorton doesn't want to pay that.
    Define quality.
    GORTON 2020

  4. #24
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division Mr.wiskers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    504
    Rep Power
    11
    I agree with what was said earlier, if we deal Kreider without having Panarin signed we risk taking a huge step back, if we end up with neither.


    Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

  5. #25
    Senior Member Bantam Division
    Fatfrancesa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    1,560
    Rep Power
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wiskers View Post
    I agree with what was said earlier, if we deal Kreider without having Panarin signed we risk taking a huge step back, if we end up with neither.


    Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk
    Only a problem for next season. This is a rebuild. It is not about next year.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Squirt Division RangersIn7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Battle Creek MI
    Posts
    448
    Rep Power
    9
    This is all coming down to 2 things

    Do they want to pay him?
    Can they get what they want in exchange for him?

    A pick in the 12-20 range is fair for what is essentially a year of Kreider. There are several teams with picks in that range that at more in need of the “right now” help Kreider would provide than they are in need of their pick. Perhaps even a team or two above that might be interested too, especially if they threw in another lesser piece or two.

    Teams like Edmonton, Vancouver, Florida, Philadelphia, Colorado are all potential partners

  7. #27
    Senior Member Junior Division
    BlairBettsBlocksEverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    6,405
    Rep Power
    83
    I wonder what Boston would want to give us for Kreider

    They have pretty much most of their squad locked up for next year. They still need to sign McAvoy but the can afford to lose Acciari and Johanssen through UFA and they currently have $13.3 mil in cap space
    __________________________________

  8. #28
    Member Mite Division tphilly5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    92
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Define quality.
    Kreider is quality. If he wasn’t there would not even be discussions about 6x7.

    People are too age obsessed. Kreider is not 20, but he is only 27. Put him on a line with Zib and a good wing and he will score plenty of goals while doing the dirty work. If Panarin is the choice I get it, but to act like Kreider is some third or fourth line journeyman is silly.

  9. #29
    Senior Member BSBH Prospect
    ThirtyONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    11,668
    Rep Power
    133
    Quote Originally Posted by tphilly5 View Post
    Kreider is quality. If he wasn’t there would not even be discussions about 6x7.

    People are too age obsessed. Kreider is not 20, but he is only 27. Put him on a line with Zib and a good wing and he will score plenty of goals while doing the dirty work. If Panarin is the choice I get it, but to act like Kreider is some third or fourth line journeyman is silly.
    He's 28.

    I've said I'm fine with keeping him. I think he could be a good leader for this team moving forward. But I there's a perfectly reasonable point to be made in moving him.
    GORTON 2020

  10. #30
    Member Mite Division tphilly5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    92
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    He's 28.

    I've said I'm fine with keeping him. I think he could be a good leader for this team moving forward. But I there's a perfectly reasonable point to be made in moving him.
    You said you were not sure you would pay 6x$6.5. I don’t think that is reasonable.

    If it was a choice of Panarin and a 1+ for Kreider I would prefer that. But since there are no guarantees I think Kreider would be a heck of a Plan B.

  11. #31
    Formerly Dru23 BSBH Prospect
    NYR2711's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    West Babylon
    Posts
    13,748
    Rep Power
    86
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Only a problem for next season. This is a rebuild. It is not about next year.
    Trading for Trouba does mean they are in a rush to rebuild. You still need offense on the team, who knows how long it will take some of the younger guys to pan out.

  12. #32
    Senior Member BSBH Prospect
    ThirtyONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    11,668
    Rep Power
    133
    Quote Originally Posted by tphilly5 View Post
    You said you were not sure you would pay 6x$6.5. I don’t think that is reasonable.

    If it was a choice of Panarin and a 1+ for Kreider I would prefer that. But since there are no guarantees I think Kreider would be a heck of a Plan B.
    What does this mean?
    GORTON 2020

  13. #33
    HNIC BSBH Legend
    Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    77,604
    Rep Power
    543
    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    What does this mean?
    Trade Kreider for a first rounder plus, sign Panarin.

  14. #34
    Russian Meddling BSBH Rookie
    josh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    28,142
    Rep Power
    345
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Only a problem for next season. This is a rebuild. It is not about next year.
    "It’s very dangerous when players lose hope,” Davidson said.

    Another bad season and you could, potentially, be developing a losing culture.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  15. #35
    Senior Member Bantam Division
    Bugg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,283
    Rep Power
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    I think you'd have to knock my tits off at the draft for me to want to trade Kreider.
    His 19/20 salary of $4.625 million is pretty reasonable. Another case as with his Lundqvist musings Brooks may be contractually obliged to write something leading up to the draft.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division
    Sod16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    725
    Rep Power
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by Bugg View Post
    His 19/20 salary of $4.625 million is pretty reasonable. Another case as with his Lundqvist musings Brooks may be contractually obliged to write something leading up to the draft.
    Larry's comments about Lundquist are musings, but his discussion of Kreider is pretty firm. Love or hate Uncle Larry, and he may be wrong about some things sometimes, but he is almost never wrong when he predicts that a player is on the way out. I've never seen him write an article like the one he wrote about Kreider today and have it turn out that the player stays long term.

  17. #37
    Russian Meddling BSBH Rookie
    josh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    28,142
    Rep Power
    345
    11 PHI for extended Kreider + 4th
    13 FLA + Heponiemi for Kreider + Boo
    16 COL + Jost
    26 CGY - no clue
    27 TB + Johnson for Kreider + 3rd
    30 BOS + JFK + 2nd for Kreider + cond 3rd (2nd if resigns)

    Oilers (8) and Vancouver (10) have been advertising their picks, but I dont know if theyll get up that high. Would probably require a first or top prospect going the other way.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  18. #38
    Senior Member Junior Division
    The Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    6,346
    Rep Power
    76
    I'm all for dealing Kreider, but I think people are undervaluing him. Hayes netted a player and a pick. Kreider DEFINITELY gets you more, especially since he's signed for the whole next season. They can get a fuck ton for him.

  19. #39
    Senior Member Squirt Division Chytiljuice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SOFLO
    Posts
    250
    Rep Power
    8
    Kreider and what other pieces would you think it would take for Colorado to give up their 4th pick..?

    I'd do Kreider, Lundkvist, and a 3rd for the 4th overall pick and hope to god that Bowen Byram is still there for us. What ya think? too much, too little?

  20. #40
    Moderator BSBH Prospect
    Puck Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    11,107
    Rep Power
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by Chytiljuice View Post
    Kreider and what other pieces would you think it would take for Colorado to give up their 4th pick..?

    I'd do Kreider, Lundkvist, and a 3rd for the 4th overall pick and hope to god that Bowen Byram is still there for us. What ya think? too much, too little?
    I think it would take more. And I’d go after one of the big C’s with that pick.


    Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

Page 2 of 13 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •