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Thread: Rangers Must Decide Whether to Keep or Deal Kreider

  1. #101
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    I think you simply have to shop him around and see what the market is for him. Not doing it would be stupid.
    With the right trading partner you could net an excellent young player in return, and in that case you do it. Something along the lines of the Brassard/Zib trade in a perfect world.
    If the market isn't there you have to consider the alternatives, but the first port of call is getting a feel for what they can expect in return.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I think you simply have to shop him around and see what the market is for him. Not doing it would be stupid.
    With the right trading partner you could net an excellent young player in return, and in that case you do it. Something along the lines of the Brassard/Zib trade in a perfect world.
    If the market isn't there you have to consider the alternatives, but the first port of call is getting a feel for what they can expect in return.
    Maybe a bit off-topic, but do we know who reached out to who in that Brass/Zib trade? Was it Rangers wanting to get younger or Ottawa looking for Kreids?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc View Post
    Maybe a bit off-topic, but do we know who reached out to who in that Brass/Zib trade? Was it Rangers wanting to get younger or Ottawa looking for Kreids?
    Dont recall, probably Gorton. He loves grabbing those "teetering" guys. Zibanejad, Namestnikov, Spooner, DeAngelo, Strome
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    We have been burned on this a few times. Paying players for what they’ve done tether than what they will do. Staal, Lundy, etc


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    you could overpay him some if you didn't overpay Staal. i don't think he's been the same player since he ran Price.
    Acqua in bocca

  5. #105
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    It really just boils down to what we could or can get for him in return. If we get blown away by a really good offer, we jump all over it like spots on a Dalmatian.

    If we don't, we have to see how he does this season and look into what the asking price is going to be for him around the deadline.

    The Rangers, for the first time I can remember in 48 years are pretty stacked with prospects, and the future is looking pretty bright for a good number of years going forward. That doesn't even include the 2020 Entry Draft that sounds like it's going to be loaded with really good players as well. I don't think there's any reason to "clog" up your system with a guy who's had his chance. If the price is right, maybe...I just don't think CK is going to be contract friendly at all.

    Too many good young studs coming up to saddle ourselves with yet another debilitating, aging veteran contract in my opinion. Been there, and done it for TOO FUCKING LONG!!! It's a new time and a new age....Sign me up for getting the most we can for this guy when the time is nigh!!!

    Thanks for your service Kreids...I wish you the best as well.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    I understand how it works. Tavares didnít get $12 and heís a center and is a better player. Regardless my point was simple when discussing over paying someone. Panarin will be either 1 or 2 in terms of cap hit among all players if the rangers sign him to the contract talked about here. That was my only point before it was dissected into some other meaning. 1 player in the league has a contract like whatís being talked about. $12m will still be a lot two years from now and seven years from now.

    And youíre right contracts go up. So why doesnít that equate when talking kreider? Because it doesnít fit the narrative thatís being pushed. Oh and by the way Brock Nelson is a ufa. He scored 25 goals and had 50 points last year. He is free to chase the biggest contract out there. Why wouldnít he be at least a starting point when talking kreider. Other of course then to argue.
    Pretty sure Tavares took a discount to go to Toronto to make it work,, but when he signed he became the 2nd highest paid player even though he is not the 2nd best player in the league. You know what your point was in bringing up McDavid's contract. By the way, fun fact: Tavares has a lower career PPG than Panarin.

    I agree on Kreider. He will get the money. We just disagree on the Rangers being the ones to give it to him.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Pretty sure Tavares took a discount to go to Toronto to make it work,, but when he signed he became the 2nd highest paid player even though he is not the 2nd best player in the league. You know what your point was in bringing up McDavid's contract. By the way, fun fact: Tavares has a lower career PPG than Panarin.

    I agree on Kreider. He will get the money. We just disagree on the Rangers being the ones to give it to him.
    My point of bringing up Mcdavid has nothing to do with him. I brought it up because he is the only player in the entire league with a contract at $12m or more. That’s it. Would it matter if I left his name out of it? Ok but my point has nothing to do with Mcdavid. So from now on we can just say player x. Take that for whatever you want. I understand what it is going to cost and why it’s goibg to cost to get panarin. Perspective matters. Talking about overpaying players matters. Of course there are reasons why a player gets overpaid. A main one is when a player is a ufa and multiple teams want that player and bid up the price. I get it. Having good reason to overpay doesn’t take away from the fact the player is overpaid in the end.

    As far as kreider goes we actually don’t disagree. I’m more than fine moving him if him staying means overpaying him. For all the reasons talked about that is possible. Nobody knows what he will take or not. However it would help to know what would be deemed a fair contract. To get there you have to look at comparables. Brock Nelson isn’t the perfect comparable. Is there a better one, I’d love to hear it? To me though Nelson’s next contract would be the starting point. That doesn’t mean I’d offer it to kreider if it was to high. I think fair would be 5 years $6m a year. I’d be ok with that but I would understand if the rangers walked from it.

  8. #108
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    All players are overpaid.
    You need to overpay for the right ones.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    My point of bringing up Mcdavid has nothing to do with him. I brought it up because he is the only player in the entire league with a contract at $12m or more. Thatís it. Would it matter if I left his name out of it? Ok but my point has nothing to do with Mcdavid. So from now on we can just say player x. Take that for whatever you want. I understand what it is going to cost and why itís goibg to cost to get panarin. Perspective matters. Talking about overpaying players matters. Of course there are reasons why a player gets overpaid. A main one is when a player is a ufa and multiple teams want that player and bid up the price. I get it. Having good reason to overpay doesnít take away from the fact the player is overpaid in the end.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Only Conner Mcdavid will have a higher cap hit. Seems reasonable
    I'm just going off of what you wrote here. Seems to me your point of bringing up McDavid was to draw a comparison between Panarin and McDavid at X amount of dollars in order to invalidate Panarin's value, while ignoring every other variable that comes into play when discussing how much a player gets paid. Particularly when a contract is signed, current cap, and what leverage the player has in negotiations. You're right. Perspective does matter.

    I'd rather "overpay" an elite player by 1-2M annually than a 2nd line player.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    I'm just going off of what you wrote here. Seems to me your point of bringing up McDavid was to draw a comparison between Panarin and McDavid at X amount of dollars in order to invalidate Panarin's value, while ignoring every other variable that comes into play when discussing how much a player gets paid. Particularly when a contract is signed, current cap, and what leverage the player has in negotiations. You're right. Perspective does matter.

    I'd rather "overpay" an elite player by 1-2M annually than a 2nd line player.
    The only player making over $12m us mcdavid. There are no other choices. Panarin at $12m will be overpaid in year 1 no less year 6 and 7. That’s the problem for me. The risk makes no sense.

    Anyway I’ve beat a dead horse here. I guess I’m the only one who feels that way. I’ll move on

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    I'm just going off of what you wrote here. Seems to me your point of bringing up McDavid was to draw a comparison between Panarin and McDavid at X amount of dollars in order to invalidate Panarin's value, while ignoring every other variable that comes into play when discussing how much a player gets paid. Particularly when a contract is signed, current cap, and what leverage the player has in negotiations. You're right. Perspective does matter.

    I'd rather "overpay" an elite player by 1-2M annually than a 2nd line player.
    Let's try it again.

    Precisely.

  12. #112
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    I guess you don’t want to move on. You guys are hung up on the comparison. It was comparison by money only, as in cap hits. Name the other player taking up $12m a year in cap hit I can compare panarin to then

  13. #113
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    It doesn't matter.

  14. #114
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    So you can’t name another player?

  15. #115
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    And if it doesn’t matter why do you continue?

  16. #116
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    I was agreeing with another users post.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    The only player making over $12m us mcdavid. There are no other choices. Panarin at $12m will be overpaid in year 1 no less year 6 and 7. That’s the problem for me. The risk makes no sense.

    Anyway I’ve beat a dead horse here. I guess I’m the only one who feels that way. I’ll move on
    Yeah. That's because all the players that would be worth 12+M this offseason are already under contract. You don't think if Crosby, Kane, etc. were on the open market that they would get that? Just McDavid is worth 12M? Not to mention McDavid signed it 2 years ago. 12.5M then is probably now 14-15M if they were doing the contract over today.

    The risk makes plenty of sense. I'm not even sure where this 12M number came from. 11M may very well be enough.
    Last edited by rmc51; 05-15-2019 at 06:11 PM.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    I guess you don’t want to move on. You guys are hung up on the comparison. It was comparison by money only, as in cap hits. Name the other player taking up $12m a year in cap hit I can compare panarin to then
    https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/a...nt&hide=handed

    cap hit percentages comparisons at signing of contract

    12m of 83m = 14.45%

    Ovechkin, Kane, McDavid, Toews, Malkin, Crosby, Kopitar
    All were RFAs at the time of signing. Most signed prior to 2013s max contract length in the CBA, as well.

    Are any of those contracts or players issues?


    And looking through the list, there are rare "bad" contracts on this list. Most, similar to Henrik, are at the end of their career, but are still not restrictive contracts, regardless if people bitch about them. You have to go down to Phaneuf at #30 on this list to find that. That contract still got moved... twice!
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  19. #119
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    Brock Nelson just signed 6 years $6m a year for what that is worth.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Brock Nelson just signed 6 years $6m a year for what that is worth.
    That’s fair money and term for Nelson and for the Islanders to keep and pay one of their own

    That’s a fair market price for Kreider too. But I’d probably pass. I don’t know that a commitment like that in money and term makes sense for them at the stage their in right now

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