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Thread: Rangers Must Decide Whether to Keep or Deal Kreider

  1. #141
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    https://www.capfriendly.com/comparab...s-kreider-7229

    Cap friendly comparables.
    Nyquist
    Palmeiri
    Hagelin
    Mike Hoffman
    Toffoli
    Eakin
    Reilly Smith

    Cap friendly comparables Adam Henrique AAV 5.8
    https://www.capfriendly.com/comparab...-henrique-8750
    Backlund
    Silverberg
    Brock Nelson
    Kyle Turris
    Hornqvist
    Brandon Dubinsky
    James Neal
    a few names skipped because signed in 2013-4

    I just don't put Kreider in the Silverberg group. Are you giving him a bonus for being a long-time Ranger? I don't see what he brings to the team that is irreplaceable
    "We're all f*cked. It helps to remember that." - George Carlin

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  2. #142
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    Iím totally confused by the cap comparisons. These are comparisons to Kreider last contract as a RFA.

    What are the compatibles to players his age that are UFA


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    I guess you donít want to move on. You guys are hung up on the comparison. It was comparison by money only, as in cap hits. Name the other player taking up $12m a year in cap hit I can compare panarin to then
    Rep bet, because I think you're completely off on that number and I'm just going to either get you to eat crow or eat my own.

    I'm taking the under on 12m for Panarin and I'm taking the under on 7 years for Panarin. Ill do one rep on each.

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    I’d bet the Panarin-Duchene cap hits are within 1.5m of eachother
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    I’m totally confused by the cap comparisons. These are comparisons to Kreider last contract as a RFA.

    What are the compatibles to players his age that are UFA


    Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk
    That's what I was trying to do by the Henrique comparison... a 5.8 million cap hit seemed like a reasonable neighborhood. I tried to tweak the settings for just UFA, custom settings 6 million cap hit, 6 million AAV, length 5 years, Games and Points to match Kreider. List ended similar to similarity search for Henrique

    Brock Nelson 6 million
    Henrique 5.825
    Silfverberg 5.25
    Kyle Turris 6
    Backlund 5.35
    James Neal 5.75
    Hornqvist 5.3
    Atkinson 5.875
    Radulov 6.25
    Pavelski 6
    van Riemsdyk 7
    Dubinsky 5.85
    Backes 6
    Okposo 6


    So if you're paying 6 million for Kreider, you're putting him in the same productivity class as this group of players.
    "We're all f*cked. It helps to remember that." - George Carlin

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  6. #146
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    Doesn't Kreider still have a year left on his contract? Why must we decide NOW whether to deal or extend his contract? Why not let him play out the last year of his existing contract and make a decision at next year's trade deadline?

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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Rep bet, because I think you're completely off on that number and I'm just going to either get you to eat crow or eat my own.

    I'm taking the under on 12m for Panarin and I'm taking the under on 7 years for Panarin. Ill do one rep on each.

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    It will be around $12m but no higher. Also depends if it’s in Florida or somewhere with taxes. So I’m not totally sure what your betting. I’m saying a ranger contract is in the $12m neighborhood. Could $11.5 but you get the point. If he goes to Florida it could be less. I think it’s safe to say he won’t get more than macdavid which is $12.5.

    It will be 7 years though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    yet you keep trying to make one against it.

    With long-term contracts, you should be looking at the 3-5 year range. Will the player be effective, and worth the contract, during those seasons?

    Beyond 5 years, who knows. You have lockouts, cba changes, contracts changes, cap ceiling changes, cap % changes, compliance buyouts, etc

    In 4 years, when the team is in need of that, the cap ceiling doesnt go up, max contract lengths are 5 years, and now most cap hits are 10-15m. 7 years ago, Karlsson signed for an inflated 6.5m per season. Now that's what Josh Bailey's make per season.
    Not at all. I have no idea what he will be. Iím against the risk of it. Iím not worried about the front end of the contract. I donít like the risk now. We need panarin of today in 5 years from now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leetchy2 View Post
    Doesn't Kreider still have a year left on his contract? Why must we decide NOW whether to deal or extend his contract? Why not let him play out the last year of his existing contract and make a decision at next year's trade deadline?
    Kreider is so noplussed about the specter of trades hanging over players' heads for months before the deadline the past two years that he has said he will not come to camp without a new contract. He really doesn't have option, but it seems like every agrees that a repeat of the past two years is not viable.

    I think we need to pony up something like $6.6m x 6 to sign him. It sounds like too much, but look at what comparable players are getting. You can't just have young newly drafted players. You have to keep some of that talent at some point, and that means over paying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Rep bet, because I think you're completely off on that number and I'm just going to either get you to eat crow or eat my own.

    I'm taking the under on 12m for Panarin and I'm taking the under on 7 years for Panarin. Ill do one rep on each.

    In?
    12M is an exaggerated number to make the argument sound better for not getting him. 11M tops. 7 years seems likely though. It's the going length for guys like Panarin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I’d bet the Panarin-Duchene cap hits are within 1.5m of eachother
    It isn't out of the question. You could make an easy argument for him using Mark Stone's contract at 9.5 per, but I'll go slightly less. Maybe 8.5-9M. Panarin 10.5-11M.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Not at all. I have no idea what he will be. I’m against the risk of it. I’m not worried about the front end of the contract. I don’t like the risk now. We need panarin of today in 5 years from now.
    No, they need a Panarin within the next 2 seasons so everyone isn’t played like Pionk (3rd pair playing a #1D role). That’s not how most players develop
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  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    12M is an exaggerated number to make the argument sound better for not getting him. 11M tops. 7 years seems likely though. It's the going length for guys like Panarin.
    Hey, I'm not the one throwing around 12m here. I've repeatedly said it won't be 12. Frankly, I'm not even sure he gets 11, and I think the overwhelming likelihood is that he ends up somewhere in the 5/52 range. I'll back off that if and only if someone trades for his rights at the draft, in which case he might get 8/80 or so.

    But if FF wants to keep throwing around 7/84 or 12m/y as an argument against Panarin and wants to throw down a rep bet that he's right, who am I to say no?
    Last edited by G1000; 05-25-2019 at 08:34 AM.

  14. #154
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    $12m is the max he would get and I’m only using that number from past arguments that people posted as the number. I do think he’s around $11m maybe a little more if the rangers get into a bidding war with Florida. $10m in Florida is equal to $11.5m from the rangers. I would think that panarin would want equal money to come here. It just depends if he’s set on a place or he’s set on the most money. If it’s the latter than the rangers will be going north of $11m.

    If you want to bet I will bet he gets no less than $11m to sign here and only here.

  15. #155
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    I’d pay him $9m. Rangers always pay 1.25x more. Brings him to $11.25m
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  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I’d pay him $9m. Rangers always pay 1.25x more. Brings him to $11.25m
    I think you are right on the money here

  17. #157
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    The Rangers haven't overpaid in AAV for a UFA since Redden/Rozsival.
    Last edited by Pete; 05-25-2019 at 05:34 PM.

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    Smith
    Shattenkirk

    Or RFAs like Spooner, Namestnikov, Vesey.
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  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Smith
    Shattenkirk

    Or RFAs like Spooner, Namestnikov, Vesey.
    Those defenseman were paid market value. We even got a discount on Shattenkirk by going 4 years not 7.

    Vesey makes $2.2 and hasn't gotten a new deal yet.

    Of Spooner and Names, only Names didn't deserve the contract he got based on his Rangers performance.

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    Kreider for Kuznetsov
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