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Rangers Must Decide Whether to Keep or Deal Kreider


Phil

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Kreider for Kessel

 

I wanted to immediately reply with

 

giphy.gif

 

But looking at whats left of his his contract its not quite as awful as I anticipated..... that being said, his hair and general "dude who mails bombs to people" or "dude who sells meth from an ice cream truck" look make it a hard no.

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It just doesnt to me, anyway I look at it. Love the guy. And the 6-7 million range is fair money nowadays for a top-6 winger who is a very nice complimentary piece.

 

But I think that they?ll want that money for other things in pretty short order.

And let?s face it, while Kreider could very well go elsewhere and blossom into the 35 goal guy that he probably should be, right now he?s a 25 goal guy and wingers who can score 25 are pretty commonplace and reasonable in price to acquire. They can find his production in a younger player down the road.

 

Trade him.

Put him in a package and get another higher pick and continue building for the future

 

I?m good with that but then don?t be signing win now free agents

 

Karlsson, panarin, duchene

 

Agreed boys!!! This is not a win now type team, and next year's draft is sounding like it's going to have some special players. Getting a very high draft pick may just be what the doctor ordered. Putting yet another generational player with the likes of Hughes/Kakko will make leaps and bounds of sense over resigning a Free agent to any long term deal in my book.

 

Our time will come when we'll need to sign a biggie....I don't think now is that time. BUT, when that time does come (...and it will again!) it will be great to know we'll have the cap space and freedom to do so with ease!!

 

Staying the course!!! :thumbs:

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@Ozzy - Agreeing with this. Swallow hard everyone and prep for another challenging season to build a solid foundation. I can watch another 'rebuild' season just as long as we stay competitive and get to see plenty of newbies on the bench. Oh yeah, and some changes on D. Take a step forward and don't try to run too fast. We're not winning the Cup in 2018-19.
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Agreed boys!!! This is not a win now type team, and next year's draft is sounding like it's going to have some special players. Getting a very high draft pick may just be what the doctor ordered. Putting yet another generational player with the likes of Hughes/Kakko will make leaps and bounds of sense over resigning a Free agent to any long term deal in my book.

 

Our time will come when we'll need to sign a biggie....I don't think now is that time. BUT, when that time does come (...and it will again!) it will be great to know we'll have the cap space and freedom to do so with ease!!

 

Staying the course!!! :thumbs:

 

agreed. in looking at cap friendly we just look so much better financially a year from now.

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Keep him. Try resigning him at 6.5 x 3-4 years if possible. At some point you have to keep certain players as a core and with the ability to lead all these younger players. Can't just continually be drafting and drafting.
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Keep him. Try resigning him at 6.5 x 3-4 years if possible. At some point you have to keep certain players as a core and with the ability to lead all these younger players. Can't just continually be drafting and drafting.

 

I simply think Kreider is going to want more than that in $$$ and term. He's certainly entitled to his desires, and has done a good job so far. I don't think it's in the Ranger's best interest to sign and keep a player as inconsistent as CK. It's rebuild time and he's a fairly valuable asset right now. I also don't see Kreider as part of this team 3 years down the road, where he may be blocking the path of a #1 draft pick of 2020 or 2021 who can very well be another Kakko or Hughes.

 

As Jimi once said so eloquently, "Move over, Rover!" :rofl:

 

I see your point though Keirik, and I think Kredier has been a pretty good Ranger as well. It's just an eye towards 3 years down the pike for me, and I wanna see them build through the draft and our current young players. I'm gonna root like hell for this youngsters this season, and I wanna see them learn and grow as team together for years to come!

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@Ozzy - Agreeing with this. Swallow hard everyone and prep for another challenging season to build a solid foundation. I can watch another 'rebuild' season just as long as we stay competitive and get to see plenty of newbies on the bench. Oh yeah, and some changes on D. Take a step forward and don't try to run too fast. We're not winning the Cup in 2018-19.

 

Hey Big guy!!

 

It's gonna be a little more fun this year with the addition of Kakko...or Hughes, doesn't matter. These kids are going to be so fun to watch, and I'm sure they'll have "their moments" this year, but all good! We have a direction, good leadership, and something extremely important: HOPE!

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Karlsson, panarin, duchene

 

That’s all fair

Though I think that that is least the case with Panarin. He’s so gifted and productive offensively that he’s a cornerstone type piece. And he’s not as old nor does he have the injury concerns that come with Karlsson. If they got him, I would not be upset by it, but they could pass on him too and I’d be cool with it.

 

My concern is that the organization after 2 years of rebuilding and missing the playoffs wants to really try and take a big step forward this offseason with an aim to be very much in the playoff picture this coming season. Personally I wouldn’t mind them taking it slow still and going through another season of rebuilding and getting another high pick in June of 2020.

That to me would be the best way for them to set themselves up very well in the long-term.

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Trading Kreider for a first and signing Panarin still doesn't make us that much better with this shit show defense.

 

You can make that move and still be bad enough to get a high pick in a very deep draft next year, plus another first for Kreider.

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That’s all fair

Though I think that that is least the case with Panarin. He’s so gifted and productive offensively that he’s a cornerstone type piece. And he’s not as old nor does he have the injury concerns that come with Karlsson. If they got him, I would not be upset by it, but they could pass on him too and I’d be cool with it.

 

My concern is that the organization after 2 years of rebuilding and missing the playoffs wants to really try and take a big step forward this offseason with an aim to be very much in the playoff picture this coming season. Personally I wouldn’t mind them taking it slow still and going through another season of rebuilding and getting another high pick in June of 2020.

That to me would be the best way for them to set themselves up very well in the long-term.

 

That would be the best step forward in my opinion too. History tells me your concerns are warranted and probably likely. If signing panarin is their move then wouldn’t keeping kreider make sense if that’s the case? If the argument is what is kreider 4-6 years from now isn’t it valid to have the same concerns with panarin at more years? The bigger risk is panarin in my opinion only because of sticker price. Realistically in years 5-7 of panarin should be prime years of contention for this team. Him living up to $12m in those years will be vital. How can anybody make a logical argument to pretend to know what he will be in those years? Good bad or whatever.

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That would be the best step forward in my opinion too. History tells me your concerns are warranted and probably likely. If signing panarin is their move then wouldn’t keeping kreider make sense if that’s the case? If the argument is what is kreider 4-6 years from now isn’t it valid to have the same concerns with panarin at more years? The bigger risk is panarin in my opinion only because of sticker price. Realistically in years 5-7 of panarin should be prime years of contention for this team. Him living up to $12m in those years will be vital. How can anybody make a logical argument to pretend to know what he will be in those years? Good bad or whatever.

yet you keep trying to make one against it.

 

With long-term contracts, you should be looking at the 3-5 year range. Will the player be effective, and worth the contract, during those seasons?

 

Beyond 5 years, who knows. You have lockouts, cba changes, contracts changes, cap ceiling changes, cap % changes, compliance buyouts, etc

 

In 4 years, when the team is in need of that, the cap ceiling doesnt go up, max contract lengths are 5 years, and now most cap hits are 10-15m. 7 years ago, Karlsson signed for an inflated 6.5m per season. Now that's what Josh Bailey's make per season.

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https://www.capfriendly.com/comparables/chris-kreider-7229

 

Cap friendly comparables.

Nyquist

Palmeiri

Hagelin

Mike Hoffman

Toffoli

Eakin

Reilly Smith

 

Cap friendly comparables Adam Henrique AAV 5.8

https://www.capfriendly.com/comparables/adam-henrique-8750

Backlund

Silverberg

Brock Nelson

Kyle Turris

Hornqvist

Brandon Dubinsky

James Neal

a few names skipped because signed in 2013-4

 

I just don't put Kreider in the Silverberg group. Are you giving him a bonus for being a long-time Ranger? I don't see what he brings to the team that is irreplaceable

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I guess you don?t want to move on. You guys are hung up on the comparison. It was comparison by money only, as in cap hits. Name the other player taking up $12m a year in cap hit I can compare panarin to then

 

Rep bet, because I think you're completely off on that number and I'm just going to either get you to eat crow or eat my own.

 

I'm taking the under on 12m for Panarin and I'm taking the under on 7 years for Panarin. Ill do one rep on each.

 

In?

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I’m totally confused by the cap comparisons. These are comparisons to Kreider last contract as a RFA.

 

What are the compatibles to players his age that are UFA

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

 

That's what I was trying to do by the Henrique comparison... a 5.8 million cap hit seemed like a reasonable neighborhood. I tried to tweak the settings for just UFA, custom settings 6 million cap hit, 6 million AAV, length 5 years, Games and Points to match Kreider. List ended similar to similarity search for Henrique

 

Brock Nelson 6 million

Henrique 5.825

Silfverberg 5.25

Kyle Turris 6

Backlund 5.35

James Neal 5.75

Hornqvist 5.3

Atkinson 5.875

Radulov 6.25

Pavelski 6

van Riemsdyk 7

Dubinsky 5.85

Backes 6

Okposo 6

 

 

So if you're paying 6 million for Kreider, you're putting him in the same productivity class as this group of players.

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Doesn't Kreider still have a year left on his contract? Why must we decide NOW whether to deal or extend his contract? Why not let him play out the last year of his existing contract and make a decision at next year's trade deadline?
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Rep bet, because I think you're completely off on that number and I'm just going to either get you to eat crow or eat my own.

 

I'm taking the under on 12m for Panarin and I'm taking the under on 7 years for Panarin. Ill do one rep on each.

 

In?

 

It will be around $12m but no higher. Also depends if it’s in Florida or somewhere with taxes. So I’m not totally sure what your betting. I’m saying a ranger contract is in the $12m neighborhood. Could $11.5 but you get the point. If he goes to Florida it could be less. I think it’s safe to say he won’t get more than macdavid which is $12.5.

 

It will be 7 years though.

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yet you keep trying to make one against it.

 

With long-term contracts, you should be looking at the 3-5 year range. Will the player be effective, and worth the contract, during those seasons?

 

Beyond 5 years, who knows. You have lockouts, cba changes, contracts changes, cap ceiling changes, cap % changes, compliance buyouts, etc

 

In 4 years, when the team is in need of that, the cap ceiling doesnt go up, max contract lengths are 5 years, and now most cap hits are 10-15m. 7 years ago, Karlsson signed for an inflated 6.5m per season. Now that's what Josh Bailey's make per season.

Not at all. I have no idea what he will be. I?m against the risk of it. I?m not worried about the front end of the contract. I don?t like the risk now. We need panarin of today in 5 years from now.

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Doesn't Kreider still have a year left on his contract? Why must we decide NOW whether to deal or extend his contract? Why not let him play out the last year of his existing contract and make a decision at next year's trade deadline?

 

Kreider is so noplussed about the specter of trades hanging over players' heads for months before the deadline the past two years that he has said he will not come to camp without a new contract. He really doesn't have option, but it seems like every agrees that a repeat of the past two years is not viable.

 

I think we need to pony up something like $6.6m x 6 to sign him. It sounds like too much, but look at what comparable players are getting. You can't just have young newly drafted players. You have to keep some of that talent at some point, and that means over paying.

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Rep bet, because I think you're completely off on that number and I'm just going to either get you to eat crow or eat my own.

 

I'm taking the under on 12m for Panarin and I'm taking the under on 7 years for Panarin. Ill do one rep on each.

 

In?

 

12M is an exaggerated number to make the argument sound better for not getting him. 11M tops. 7 years seems likely though. It's the going length for guys like Panarin.

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