[brooks] Rangers Must Decide Whether to Keep or Deal Kreider

But he has never been a 30 goal scorer in 6 seasons and counting. The Rangers shouldn't be about to pay him as such either.

Unless we're getting 2 pricey FA's, I'd rather overpay a homegrown talent by $1 MM a year than risk getting a complete bust like in the post-1997 era.

Yea. Most GMs.

But he has never been a 30 goal scorer in 6 seasons and counting. The Rangers shouldn't be about to pay him as such either.

I think it's a bet worth taking on CK, a homegrown talent.

I don't think he'll wilt from the pressure.

I was kidding. Yea, they might. But there are 30 other teams in 30 different positions with 30 organizational needs. So, YMMV.

 

And to be clear, personally I said I'd do $6 x 4 for Kreider. But he wouldn't. So that's why I ship him out.

A 4 year, $25 million commitment is probably fair for Kreider. I might even go to 5/30. That’d also be in a fair ballpark for him. But anymore than that would IMO be too much.

A 4 year, $25 million commitment is probably fair for Kreider. I might even go to 5/30. That’d also be in a fair ballpark for him. But anymore than that would IMO be too much.

I'm good with those numbers, and would also consider 3/20. Can't just look at point production with CK either, how many goals did the Rangers score with him parked in front of the crease screening the goalie? No assist but quite effective.

Kreider is a 50 point player. He gets 5m, period. If he were putting up 40 goals and 10 assists it would be a different story, but he's not. If he doesn't want 5m, he can go get it in Edmonton. I love Kreider but he's a complimentary player.

I say sign him for $6 MM/year. Compared to what deals we signed in the last few years, that's not unreasonable.

Maybe on a team with more talent, he'll rise to the occassion ?

 

I say sign him for $6 MM/year. Compared to what deals we signed in the last few years, that's not unreasonable.

It's not, but it's in the danger zone given the majority of those style extensions for that style of player. Few work out. Even fewer improve (or more specifically don't dramatically get worse) with age.

I like Kreider. A lot. I even wrote about keeping him. I still would, but I think you have to explore the trade market, too, and not just in an "if someone makes you an offer you can't refuse" kind of way. That applies for every player by default. In his case, a fair offer is one you ought to think long and hard about.

It's not, but it's in the danger zone given the majority of those style extensions for that style of player. Few work out. Even fewer improve (or more specifically don't dramatically get worse) with age. I like Kreider. A lot. I even wrote about keeping him. I still would, but I think you have to explore the trade market, too, and not just in an "if someone makes you an offer you can't refuse" kind of way. That applies for every player by default. In his case, a fair offer is one you ought to think long and hard about.

Other teams have double-digit $MM players and others right below that. We've got nobody within $3 MM of Hank. Are we getting Panarin and 1 or 2 others ? Kappo/Hughes come cheap, who else we gonna spend it on ?

Panarin. All day long.

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I just think there are going to be better options than Kreider when the time comes. This squad is still a bit away from being seriously competitive. Kreider has talent, and will definitely fare pretty well for another team...and I really hope he does!! I just don't think he's a fit here anymore, due to the whole rebuilding factor. These kids are going to need time and space to grow; Yeah Kreider can score 30 goals, but we've seen his disappearing act for years now. He's got speed, sure...when he wants to use it, but I simply don't think this guy's going to play up to this upcoming contract with the Rangers.

I think Phil hit it on the nose;

The guy's a good player, most likely top 6. But after his speed starts to diminish, even a little....who do we have? A slower, lazier big contract we can't get rid of or will have to buy out because of the next really good player in the draft.

I think it's best to trade somebody like him if there is truly a better option of acquiring a better prospect, or draft pick. Honestly, I like Kreider, but his inability to play consistent hockey at a high level is really wearing on me.

Fair points, Phil...but other than Hank, if we aren't going to sign Kreider, then WHO are we giving a $6MM or more contract to ?

 

Other teams have double-digit $MM players and others right below that. We've got nobody within $3 MM of Hank. Are we getting Panarin and 1 or 2 others ? Kappo/Hughes come cheap, who else we gonna spend it on ?

Panarin. All day long.

 

 

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Or Kakko, bluntly.

These sorts of contracts are NOT about now. They're about two, three, four years from now, doubly so when we're probably within a year of officially flipping the switch from rebuilding to contending. Who do you need to make sure is paid tomorrow?

Panarin. Kakko. Trouba, perhaps?

What you don't want is to have to move a key piece because Kreider is making 1st line money as a mid-sixer

I’m fine either way with kreider. Curious though how some are worried about him living up to $6m over 4 of 5 years but panarain at $12m for 7 years is not a concern. Crazy to me.

I'd like us to continue as we are right now; rebuilding with youth. Panarin is a tremendous young player, but that is a LOT of years and A LOT of green!

I may not be positive, but I don't think any of the teams in the final four this year have a player making over $8 million a year (Brent Burns).

I’m fine either way with kreider. Curious though how some are worried about him living up to $6m over 4 of 5 years but panarain at $12m for 7 years is not a concern. Crazy to me.

It makes sense to me. One is a 50 point player who is much easier to replace, both through FA and from within. The other is a 80-90 point player and those are very hard to find, both in FA and from within. Risk should be weighed accordingly.

I’m fine either way with kreider. Curious though how some are worried about him living up to $6m over 4 of 5 years but panarain at $12m for 7 years is not a concern. Crazy to me.

It's a bunch of things.

Age - Panarin is younger. 7 years takes Panarin to 34.

Wear - KHL seasons take less off the treads - they're 50-ish games and on larger ice in a less physical league. He's not 700 games into an NHL career; he's around 500 in the equivalents.

Production - Panarin's scoring like a madman with or without players around him

Tools - Panarin is NOT a "raw physical specimen" - his skating is great, but it's mechanics, creativity, hockey IQ - stuff like that - that make him tick. Those players tend to last a LONG time in the league.

It's a bunch of things.

 

Age - Panarin is younger. 7 years takes Panarin to 34.

Wear - KHL seasons take less off the treads - they're 50-ish games and on larger ice in a less physical league. He's not 700 games into an NHL career; he's around 500 in the equivalents.

Production - Panarin's scoring like a madman with or without players around him

Tools - Panarin is NOT a "raw physical specimen" - his skating is great, but it's mechanics, creativity, hockey IQ - stuff like that - that make him tick. Those players tend to last a LONG time in the league.

Kreider is 6 months older than Panarin. They'll both be 28 this season, and Kreider's only played 530something NHL games, including playoffs.

Kreider will last a long time too, because though he is a good skater and strong, he doesn't depend on it. He can hang out in front of the net for a long time.

Kreider is 6 months older than Panarin. They'll both be 28 this season, and Kreider's only played 530something NHL games, including playoffs.

 

Kreider will last a long time too, because though he is a good skater and strong, he doesn't depend on it. He can hang out in front of the net for a long time.

Different styles. Kreider is a much more physical player, much more reliant on his physical gifts.

The worry here is that without his physical gifts, Kreider becomes something like what Marian Gaborik was to the Kings in '15.

Different styles. Kreider is a much more physical player, much more reliant on his physical gifts.

 

The worry here is that without his physical gifts, Kreider becomes something like what Marian Gaborik was to the Kings in '15.

The problem with Kreider is that he doesn't use his physicality for anything. Short term that's always made him inconsistent but long term, even as his speed declines, he can still be effective in front of the net. He absolutely does not depend on his physical gifts, to a flaw, but that means he'll have more longevity. He's averaged ~28 goals over the last 3 seasons, and he can absolutely do that into his 30s.

Gabby could only do one thing.

The problem with Kreider is that he doesn't use his physicality for anything. Short term that's always made him inconsistent but long term, even as his speed declines, he can still be effective in front of the net. He absolutely does not depend on his physical gifts, to a flaw, but that means he'll have more longevity.

 

Gabby could only do one thing.

Fair, but are you going to give him 6-7M/y to be Mike Knuble?

Fair, but are you going to give him 6-7M/y to be Mike Knuble?

You mean the Mike Knuble who averaged 29 goals a season after he turned 30? Yes.

I'd go 6x$6 on Kreider all day and not think twice about it.

I think people are way too concerned about Kreids dropping off at 30. He's a ridiculous athlete and is as well conditioned as any player in the league. He's not Derek Stepan.

It's a bunch of things.

 

Age - Panarin is younger. 7 years takes Panarin to 34.

Wear - KHL seasons take less off the treads - they're 50-ish games and on larger ice in a less physical league. He's not 700 games into an NHL career; he's around 500 in the equivalents.

Production - Panarin's scoring like a madman with or without players around him

Tools - Panarin is NOT a "raw physical specimen" - his skating is great, but it's mechanics, creativity, hockey IQ - stuff like that - that make him tick. Those players tend to last a LONG time in the league.

1. Panarin is months younger

2. The whole khl thing is a made up talking point for those looking to diminish his age. These are people we are talking about not robots. Nobody knows how he will age or anyone else. Kreider is a workout freak, so what. The khl thing is not fact plain and simple, it’s an excuse to overlook age.

3. No doubt panarin is a much better player but kreider is not a slouch. Panarin is going to cost double the money and at least two more years in term. So there goes the age thing once again

4. Mechanics? Seriously? He is creative, he is a good player, hockey iq? Offensively he has iq. Nothing here means he will last at all nor does it mean he won’t. It’s again propaganda to support a position.

Wanting to sign panarin is a legitimate thought. It comes with risk lots of it. A kreider contract gone bad is nothing to what a panarin contract gone bad is. On its face it’s a ridiculous argument. Measuring which is more likely to go bad is fair and maybe kreider is more likely. The main point is still the same. In the position this team sits and the hope in the future with all that has been added lately does the risk makes sense? Hard to even discuss it legitimately when most can’t even admit the massive risk to signing a $12m 7 year contract to a 28 year old. Lord knows the rangers don’t have history at all in signing bad contracts. I know I know this one is different.

Does not have good hands, so why would we be inclined to think he’ll suddenly develop them and become Adam Graves in front of the net?

Who? Kreider?

He's scored more goals on tips than any player in the league since 2016. He scores more of his goals there than anybody. He's not great on deflections but a) that can improve and b) we've never had point men capable of getting the puck to the net consistently. That number will go up.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggregate=1&report=shottype&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20162017&seasonTo=20182019&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=goalsTipped