confirmed: Rangers Acquire D Adam Fox from CAR for 2019 2nd Rounder, 2020 Conditional 3rd

We don't really know how Miller fit in to that deal, though, do we? At face value, it seems it would have been better to deal him seperately.

 

I like his deals, in general. What I like is the addition of these conditional riders that can pay off big and come with zero downside.

I agree. The Tampa deal is almost impossible to say that was a bad deal so far. Tampa got absolutely nothing out of it other than first round embarrassment and a shit load of cap issues. JT Miller isn't much to write home about and the exact kind of player (50 point/5million) we're hoping to rid ourselves of. Whereas Libor Hajek looked awesome in his limited time, Brett Howden was the surprise out of camp, and K'Andre Miller looks like an absolute stud. I'm not sure how we got "garbage" back from Tampa.

In any case, with the inclusion of the 2nd overall this year (Kakko), the Rangers system is absolutely stacked with their own picks as well as other team's picks. It only took two years to tear it down and restock. I'm thoroughly impressed by what Gorton has been able to accomplish.

I agree. The Tampa deal is almost impossible to say that was a bad deal so far. Tampa got absolutely nothing out of it other than first round embarrassment and a shit load of cap issues. JT Miller isn't much to write home about and the exact kind of player (50 point/5million) we're hoping to rid ourselves of. Whereas Libor Hajek looked awesome in his limited time, Brett Howden was the surprise out of camp, and K'Andre Miller looks like an absolute stud. I'm not sure how we got "garbage" back from Tampa.

 

In any case, with the inclusion of the 2nd overall this year (Kakko), the Rangers system is absolutely stacked with their own picks as well as other team's picks. It only took two years to tear it down and restock. I'm thoroughly impressed by what Gorton has been able to accomplish.

I agree with this. Had a bit of a sour taste in my mouth last off season but I am thrilled this off season. AND they could potentially have an extra first rounder next year too. Now all Gorton has to do is keep his 1st rounders and keep drafting quality talent to fill up the ranks and this team should be solid for a good decade.

Matt Gilroy had 8 points in 36 his Freshman year, then 26 in 39, 21, in 40, and 37 in 45 his Senior year in Hockey East.

Adam Fox had 40 points in 35 games his Freshman year, then 28 in 29, and 48 in 33 is Junior year in ECAC, while also putting up 9 points in 14 WJC games over two years.

 

While Gilroy faced stiffer competition, those numbers are not at all comparable.

And the fact Gilroy was much older

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I agree. The Tampa deal is almost impossible to say that was a bad deal so far. Tampa got absolutely nothing out of it other than first round embarrassment and a shit load of cap issues. JT Miller isn't much to write home about and the exact kind of player (50 point/5million) we're hoping to rid ourselves of. Whereas Libor Hajek looked awesome in his limited time, Brett Howden was the surprise out of camp, and K'Andre Miller looks like an absolute stud. I'm not sure how we got "garbage" back from Tampa.

 

In any case, with the inclusion of the 2nd overall this year (Kakko), the Rangers system is absolutely stacked with their own picks as well as other team's picks. It only took two years to tear it down and restock. I'm thoroughly impressed by what Gorton has been able to accomplish.

Names is garbage. 4+ million for 30 points? Miller is paid accordingly. We should stop acting like 5 mil for a 50 point player is overpayment. That's a standard value contract. That's what you have to pay middle 6 guys to keep the team together. We're paying Strome 3.1 for a 40 point pace and people complain he's overpaid. Seems expectations are a little out of whack.

If you think teams can be successful by swapping middle 6 players every 2 years then I don't know what to tell you. You need some continuity on the ice and chemistry in the room.

Well don't cherry pick the post lol. That's not close to what I said. Read what I ACTUALLY wrote...McD return was fair but if they added Miller and took Names back...

 

Names is garbage. 4+ million for 30 points? Miller is paid accordingly. We should stop acting like 5 mil for a 50 point player is overpayment. That's a standard value contract. That's what you have to pay middle 6 guys to keep the team together. We're paying Strome 3.1 for a 40 point pace and people complain he's overpaid. Seems expectations are a little out of whack.

 

If you think teams can be successful by swapping middle 6 players every 2 years then I don't know what to tell you. You need some continuity on the ice and chemistry in the room.

They paid Namest $4m after a season he had 48 points. He was pacing 58 when they traded for him. Same as JT getting $5 and Strome getting $3. All 3 are overpaid when they play bottom-6 minutes because, on good teams, that's where they all slot in, and you can get the same production from ELCs and vet mins without the same term. Why pay Strome when you can pay Tyler Ennis? Why pay Namest when you can pay Cogliano?

I think Miller is the best value out of the bunch, everyone knows that Tampa doesn't want to hold that contract to play him in the bottom 6.

Why is points the only standard?

Miller gets his points and brings nothing else to the table. By the end of this season incl. Playoffs he was playing 9-11 minutes a night.

You don't pay 5 million, with term, for 9 minutes a night.

Is he worth more than Names? Probably, but there's much less term attached to him, and less dollars.

Well don't cherry pick the post lol. That's not close to what I said. Read what I ACTUALLY wrote...McD return was fair but if they added Miller and took Names back...

 

Names is garbage. 4+ million for 30 points? Miller is paid accordingly. We should stop acting like 5 mil for a 50 point player is overpayment. That's a standard value contract. That's what you have to pay middle 6 guys to keep the team together. We're paying Strome 3.1 for a 40 point pace and people complain he's overpaid. Seems expectations are a little out of whack.

 

If you think teams can be successful by swapping middle 6 players every 2 years then I don't know what to tell you. You need some continuity on the ice and chemistry in the room.

I'm not sure what your point is. The trade wasn't Miller for Namestnikov. There was a lot more to it than that.

I'm not sure what your point is. The trade wasn't Miller for Namestnikov. There was a lot more to it than that.

When people say "if" and "seems like" it's a pretty apparent way of saying we don't know for sure. Which is what I said already.

Point being, imo again, Gorton gets good pieces but he SEEMS to always overpay.

Yep, I said. Read back.

 

When people say "if" and "seems like" it's a pretty apparent way of saying we don't know for sure. Which is what I said already.

 

Point being, imo again, Gorton gets good pieces but he SEEMS to always overpay.

Not that it matters but here's what you said:

Gorton always seems to overpay when it isn't necessary. Want McD? Ok we have a fair deal... take Miller too, and give us back your garbage.

 

Always throws in a little extra when he doesn't need to.

 

Gorton gets good pieces but he SEEMS to always overpay.

Bold is what I'm taking issue with. What is this based on? Per conversation, it seems like you're basing these statements on the idea that Miller and Namestnikov was a 1-1 and everything else was for Mac... which as you stated, we don't know to be true.

Not that it matters but here's what you said:

 

 

 

Bold is what I'm taking issue with. What is this based on? Per conversation, it seems like you're basing these statements on the idea that Miller and Namestnikov was a 1-1 and everything else was for Mac... which as you stated, we don't know to be true.

We don't really know how Miller fit in to that deal, though, do we? At face value, it seems it would have been better to deal him seperately.

 

I like his deals, in general. What I like is the addition of these conditional riders that can pay off big and come with zero downside.

And I said...

Right. That's why I said "seems". Never really know what happened. Just basing it on Miller and Names being names that we heard 5 mins after the other guys.

They paid Namest $4m after a season he had 48 points. He was pacing 58 when they traded for him. Same as JT getting $5 and Strome getting $3. All 3 are overpaid when they play bottom-6 minutes because, on good teams, that's where they all slot in, and you can get the same production from ELCs and vet mins without the same term. Why pay Strome when you can pay Tyler Ennis? Why pay Namest when you can pay Cogliano?

 

I think Miller is the best value out of the bunch, everyone knows that Tampa doesn't want to hold that contract to play him in the bottom 6.

Right... And then Dunny said...

 

 

 

And I said...

Lol god we're just going in circles. What are you basing your opinion on that Gorton "always" overpays? That's all I'm asking.

Lol god we're just going in circles. What are you basing your opinion on that Gorton "always" overpays? That's all I'm asking.

Well yeah. Except we gave 2 picks.

 

Gorton always seems to overpay when it isn't necessary. Want McD? Ok we have a fair deal... take Miller too, and give us back your garbage.

 

We know Fox is wants to come here. We'll give a second... And another pick that gets better unless h breaks something in camp.

 

Always throws in a little extra when he doesn't need to.

 

He's just not a savvy deal maker. He's getting good pieces but paying more than top dollar to get them.

Add moving up to take Miller at the draft.

Whatever you think of Gorton and his dealmaking, he set out to completely rebuild the roster by stacking the farm with prospects and he has done so very effectively.

The turnaround in the Rangers prospect pool is astonishing in the timeframe he's had to work with. It's way too early to say if they've made the right picks and decisions along the way, but for now you have to say he's done as well as you could hope for post "the letter".

In this particular case I think it's fair to say 2 2nd's is over paying, but they had a prospect they really wanted, went in decisively and got it done. I have no issues with it. That's even before you consider there could have been other teams sniffing that were willing to give up a similar deal.

Matt Gilroy had 8 points in 36 his Freshman year, then 26 in 39, 21, in 40, and 37 in 45 his Senior year in Hockey East.

Adam Fox had 40 points in 35 games his Freshman year, then 28 in 29, and 48 in 33 is Junior year in ECAC, while also putting up 9 points in 14 WJC games over two years.

 

While Gilroy faced stiffer competition, those numbers are not at all comparable.

The hype is similar. The smallish, one dimensional offensive D man that teams are hoping to sign. I'm really holding off any expectations. It's entirely possible they reached for the shiny object that they already have.

The hype is similar. The smallish, one dimensional offensive D man that teams are hoping to sign. I'm really holding off any expectations. It's entirely possible they reached for the shiny object that they already have.

Gilroy : Fox

As Grachev : Kakko

Gilroy : Fox

As Grachev : Kakko

Agreed 100%

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Gilroy : Fox

As Grachev : Kakko

Nah. Guess we will see. I'm not buying in. If anything he Pionk part 2.

Nevermind the lack of a need for another one dimensional offensive D man who will be learning on the job.

I'm fine with keeping just DeAngelo as the point producer on defense.

Nah. Guess we will see. I'm not buying in. If anything he Pionk part 2.

 

Nevermind the lack of a need for another one dimensional offensive D man who will be learning on the job.

 

I'm fine with keeping just DeAngelo as the point producer on defense.

Have you seen Fox? I haven't so I'm not sure what he is yet. A lot of people that have seen him are very high on him.

Have you seen Fox? I haven't so I'm not sure what he is yet. A lot of people that have seen him are very high on him.

To be fair... Most here are.

Nah. Guess we will see. I'm not buying in. If anything he Pionk part 2.

 

Nevermind the lack of a need for another one dimensional offensive D man who will be learning on the job.

 

I'm fine with keeping just DeAngelo as the point producer on defense.

The difference between Pionk and Fox, basically, is one is good offensively, while the other can run/control the offense. The first season, sure, I can see them looking similar. After that, the ceiling for Fox is so much higher. (And I’m not a big Fox fan).

From what I saw of fox at the wjc, I went to the one in Montreal when the us won gold, I didn’t like his game. Granted it was years ago and you’re judging kids but I listened to the hype and just couldn’t see it myself. I saw a risk taking player who had skill but a questionable understanding of situational hockry and decision making. I found myself cursing his play throughout the semi vs Russia and the gold medal game against Canada. He had no tie with the rangers so I wasn’t watching him intently, he just kept becoming noticeable to me by his mistakes. Those games were as intense as any ranger playoff game for me and him above all players left me disgusted with his game.

I know it means little and he’s had three years of growth since then. What concerns me is that people raved about his game then and I thought he sucked hard in the little I saw of him. So the raves I hear now are s little hard to believe. At least I will wait to see what he looks like today. Matt gilroy May very well be a great comparison here. I hope not

From what I saw of fox at the wjc, I went to the one in Montreal when the us won gold, I didn’t like his game. Granted it was years ago and you’re judging kids but I listened to the hype and just couldn’t see it myself. I saw a risk taking player who had skill but a questionable understanding of situational hockry and decision making. I found myself cursing his play throughout the semi vs Russia and the gold medal game against Canada. He had no tie with the rangers so I wasn’t watching him intently, he just kept becoming noticeable to me by his mistakes. Those games were as intense as any ranger playoff game for me and him above all players left me disgusted with his game.

 

I know it means little and he’s had three years of growth since then. What concerns me is that people raved about his game then and I thought he sucked hard in the little I saw of him. So the raves I hear now are s little hard to believe. At least I will wait to see what he looks like today. Matt gilroy May very well be a great comparison here. I hope not

Didn't he have 3 assists in that gold medal game?

Didn't he have 3 assists in that gold medal game?

Assists on the 2nd and 4th goals. That pass on the 4th goal was beautiful.

I'd take analysis seen here with a big grain of salt. Fox won't move the needle for everybody. The bar for that is pretty high.