BrooksBurner Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Hayes filled a need for them, or at least they thought he would. Krieder does not. Jets thought that he might be a guy to help put them over the top. So yeah, 2 months of Hayes at the deadline was worth a 1st. Getting that player at that time and making a deep playoff run like they were looking to was more important and of greater value to them than their 1st round pick was. Kreider would fetch at least what Hayes got even at next year's deadline, let alone a full year's worth of him. I don't know why that's so disagreeable, but if you value Kreider at a 2nd or less I'll just agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 I'll say this much: I'd rather give Karlsson 11x7 than Trouba 7x7. That’s a fair point indeed. Not saying I’d run to line up for that, but they could actually get more value there. Though I think Karlsson costs more than 11 per. Doughty got that last summer. Karlsson will want and get more. If the expectation is that Trouba will come in and be a top pairing franchise defenseman, then people are going to be disappointed when he is only a very good second pairing guy. Or maybe he’s the 2nd guy next to the franchise guy on a top pairing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 24, 2019 Author Share Posted April 24, 2019 That’s a fair point indeed. Not saying I’d run to line up for that, but they could actually get more value there. Though I think Karlsson costs more than 11 per. Doughty got that last summer. Karlsson will want and get more. If the expectation is that Trouba will come in and be a top pairing franchise defenseman, then people are going to be disappointed when he is only a very good second pairing guy. Or maybe he’s the 2nd guy next to the franchise guy on a top pairing. Will want. Not sure will get. But even at 11.5 or 12, I'd still rather give him the same term over Trouba, and I like Trouba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Kreider would fetch at least what Hayes got even at next year's deadline, let alone a full year's worth of him. I don't know why that's so disagreeable, but if you value Kreider at a 2nd or less I'll just agree to disagree. Probably not the best choice of words on my behalf. I wasn’t as clear as I should have been. I don’t value Krieder less. I’m thinking in terms of other GM’s approaching a deal. And it’s the summer. I’m not trying to make the playoffs or make a deep run or win a Cup right now. I’m not under a gun. I can take my time somewhat They can absolutely get a first for him. He’s worth it. Bonafide 25+ goal winger. He has that value. But as another GM, I’m not giving one unless: A) I like him long-term and I’m very confident in my chances at keeping him B) Adding him puts me in what I feel is really good position to make a run at a Cup this year. Or at least fills a big void and makes me a good deal better. For example, if I’m Colorado, sitting on 2 1st rounders, I’m calling the Rangers about him. That’s a place I could see him staying in long-term. And if not, he gives them depth they really lack up front and he makes them better right now. He’d be worth a 1st to them I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 I think the Rangers should pass on Trouba. If they're going to be locking a defender up 7x7, it needs to be a clear top pair defender. Stay the course with the rebuild. They've got a number of high upside defensive prospects coming down the pipe. Ride out this coming season, see where the team is and keep all the picks and draft high upside prospects. Then they can reassess next year. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk I'm with you my good man! I'm all for letting the bad contracts play themselves out, or actually package them away as cheaply as possible. Definitely staying the course on the rebuild. This team isn't going to be contending, in my opinion for the next 2 seasons...meaning not a "cup Contender". Playoffs maybe...but not going to get far. I wanna see these guys gel together as kids and progress together. As painful as that maybe at times, I still think we keep the gun loaded and IF these guys progress faster than expected and look like the real deal, we can always pull the trigger on a big piece of the puzzle that puts it over the top. As far as Kreider goes, I think his days here should be numbered. Either he can be used to package with a bad contract at this year's draft to move up, or most likely deal him at next season's deadline for the best possible picks/prospects we can acquire. I don't see any way we can give him a long term, big money deal. I simply think there are better players for the money spent either out there now with some other team, or on the way up with us or another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 I don't know if I buy that. He can be dealt to 20 teams per his clause; I think if a decent enough offer comes through, he's gone. Right handed shots are overvalued in the NHL, and I can think of at least a few teams that wouldn't mind adding a cost-controlled righty asset for 2nd-3rd pair + PP time. Who, how does he fit, and why would they do that before the deadline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 I'm with you my good man! I'm all for letting the bad contracts play themselves out, or actually package them away as cheaply as possible. Definitely staying the course on the rebuild. This team isn't going to be contending, in my opinion for the next 2 seasons...meaning not a "cup Contender". Playoffs maybe...but not going to get far. I wanna see these guys gel together as kids and progress together. As painful as that maybe at times, I still think we keep the gun loaded and IF these guys progress faster than expected and look like the real deal, we can always pull the trigger on a big piece of the puzzle that puts it over the top. As far as Kreider goes, I think his days here should be numbered. Either he can be used to package with a bad contract at this year's draft to move up, or most likely deal him at next season's deadline for the best possible picks/prospects we can acquire. I don't see any way we can give him a long term, big money deal. I simply think there are better players for the money spent either out there now with some other team, or on the way up with us or another team. Hasn’t Krieder already said he won’t be in camp without a new contract? Even if he hasn’t, they can’t let this spill over into next season They need to get it all resolved completely this summer. Either extend him or trade him. I have no doubt they’d like to keep him, but I’m not sure they want to meet the price he’s looking for in both term and money. If they feel that way, why wait? Plenty of teams would have interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costa Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Why should the Rangers go after Trouba when you have K'Andre Miller in the system that pretty much the same player just with less offensive upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 24, 2019 Author Share Posted April 24, 2019 Why do you only want/need one of them when you could have both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Why do you only want/need one of them when you could have both? Because that’s a lot of defensive zone turnovers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 It is possible that miller doesn’t develop into what they hope. They should stay away from trouba to see what they have and then address their weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Miller is probably 3 years away from being on the Rangers. They can't operate status quo until that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Miller is probably 3 years away from being on the Rangers. They can't operate status quo until that happens. Nah, we should wait 5 years to see what Miller is before doing anything for defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 If Miller progresses extremely well, maybe they see him sometime in 20-21 at the earliest. Probably not till 21/22 though. When he was drafted they had mentioned two things. That he’d only just transitioned to playing D and that he’d be going to Wisconsin for at least 2 years before he signed. Figure 18/19 and 19/20 at Wisconsin and then probably at least some time in Hartford in 20/21. Possibly even still at Wisconsin in 20/21 Only 2 years in college is actually faster than McDonagh progressed. Drafted in 07. Spent all of 07/08, 08/09, and 09/10 at Wisconsin and then half of 10/11 in Hartford. So he may still be another 2 full seasons from even turning pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 The rangers have other prospects at defense other than miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sod16 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 It's nice having prospects like Miller, don't get me wrong, but he's not nearly enough of a "can't miss" guy to make any plans, long or short term around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck Head Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Why do you only want/need one of them when you could have both? And Miller may be 3-4 years from being a solid nhl player. As it looks now he?s on the path, but still a few years out. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 And Miller may be 3-4 years from being a solid nhl player. As it looks now he’s on the path, but still a few years out. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Miller probably IS 3-4 years away from being a solid NHL player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodrigueGabriel Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I think he's got one more season in WI and, if it goes well, he's here (or maybe Htfd). Granato even said he could play in the NHL now, but has more to learn. He'll continue learning, but my bet is that he does it here making $8-900 thou on an ELC. Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slobberknocker Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 i'll say this; while trouba is intriguing, listening to friedman this morning there's a good chance there will be a lot of the fruit on the tree this summer. Line up all the big shot teams that are making tee times today after the 1st round exit and he believed you will see much movement, both cap related and the fact that some of the teams bounced i.e, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Toronto etc... will all not stand pat after the disappointment suffered this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 i'll say this; while trouba is intriguing, listening to friedman this morning there's a good chance there will be a lot of the fruit on the tree this summer. Line up all the big shot teams that are making tee times today after the 1st round exit and he believed you will see much movement, both cap related and the fact that some of the teams bounced i.e, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Toronto etc... will all not stand pat after the disappointment suffered this year. I agree with that There’s at least some shake up needed with the teams you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 i'll say this; while trouba is intriguing, listening to friedman this morning there's a good chance there will be a lot of the fruit on the tree this summer. Line up all the big shot teams that are making tee times today after the 1st round exit and he believed you will see much movement, both cap related and the fact that some of the teams bounced i.e, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Toronto etc... will all not stand pat after the disappointment suffered this year. Yea, and in that vein, I think it's more likely that vets/names are moved to make way for younger players. For instance, it doesn't make sense to me for Winnipeg to keep Byfuglien and not Trouba. Pitt might move Kessel/Malkin, but Guentzel isn't going anywhere. So depending on what "fruit on the tree" means, it's probably buyer beware, because it's not going to be anyone under 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Yea, and in that vein, I think it's more likely that vets/names are moved to make way for younger players. For instance, it doesn't make sense to me for Winnipeg to keep Byfuglien and not Trouba. Pitt might move Kessel/Malkin, but Guentzel isn't going anywhere. So depending on what "fruit on the tree" means, it's probably buyer beware, because it's not going to be anyone under 30. Yes. That is true. It will likely be some older veteran players that become available, so it surely is buyer beware on a case by case basis and considering age, contract status, cap implications, injury history, recent level of production and how that is trending, fit on your current roster, and long-term plan. But there may be guys out there and available that can help and make some sense for them, especially if they really are trying to accelerate the rebuild process. Personally I’d like to see them continue more along the line that they’ve gone on in the last 2 years, but I’m certainly open to some guys who may be out there coming in. Don’t want to see a huge influx of high priced vets though. Should be an interesting summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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