gdt: 2019 NHL Entry Draft / KAKKO SZN

Here's the list of NHL defensemen drafted by Gordie Clark since his first year in charge (05-06):

 

Michael Del Zotto

Brady Skjei

 

He's not good because he can draft a million third and fourth liners.

Well I can forgive that since he probably just added three more to the list in this past draft, including 2 that look like they could turn out to be top pairing guys.

Does getting this pick make anyone feel better about Lias?

I wouldn't say it makes me feel better about Lias, but it makes me feel less worse about "missing" on the pick. It's too early to tell what he will be, but there has been a huge expectation for him to be something he is not because he was the highest draft pick we have had in a long time. I think the sting of not getting an immediate and impactful player at that spot is softened a little bit by getting the #2 this year.

I wouldn't say it makes me feel better about Lias, but it makes me feel less worse about "missing" on the pick. It's too early to tell what he will be, but there has been a huge expectation for him to be something he is not because he was the highest draft pick we have had in a long time. I think the sting of not getting an immediate and impactful player at that spot is softened a little bit by getting the #2 this year.

I think we are accustomed to "missing" on picks. But I think with Chytil, Kravtsov, Miller, Lundkvist... and potentially Hughes/Kakko, we finally feel like we are "hitting" on picks.

The potential of having Kravtsov and Kakko as top 6 wingers for years to come is pretty exciting. Add a Panarin, and that's the best, most skilled top 6 we've had... ever? Kravtsov, Kakko, Zibanejad, Panarin, Chytil. Their "floors" are the equivalent to the "ceilings" of Zuccarallo/Kreider, etc

I wouldn't say it makes me feel better about Lias, but it makes me feel less worse about "missing" on the pick. It's too early to tell what he will be, but there has been a huge expectation for him to be something he is not because he was the highest draft pick we have had in a long time. I think the sting of not getting an immediate and impactful player at that spot is softened a little bit by getting the #2 this year.

I don?t know what you?re referring to regarding Lias and ?huge expectations.? From the day he was drafted and based on scouting reports beforehand, it was said all along that he was a high compete guy, characterized by two-way play, high character, leadership and intangibles but that he was not going to blow anyone away with his offense.

His ceiling is that of 15-20 goals, 45-50 points, and quality two-way play awith some passing/play making ability. I?ll absolutely take that player.

And he absolutely can still reach that ceiling. He?s played 50 games.

Give him time.

Alright well since you're cherry picking, I'll list his players that played a major role for the Rangers:

 

Artem Anisimov, Carl Hagelin, Derek Stepan, Chris Kreider, Jesper Fast, J. T. Miller, Pavel Buchnevich, Del Zotto, Skjei (none of which are 4th liners)

Between, 2006 and 2017 the Rangers had 6 first round picks, one of which died. Out of the other five, only one was above spot 19.

 

He's also drafted: Lias Andersson, Filip Chytil, Morgan Barron, Vitali Kravtsov, K'Andre Miller, Nils Lundkvist, Igor Shestyorkin, Tarmo Reunanen, and Joey Keane -- all players who show incredible promise.

 

Yes, he missed on McIlrath. But that was NINE years ago. One fuck up does not make you bad at your job.

 

Not to mention, every armchair scout on this board wanted Wahlstrom last year while Kravstov was just ranked the best NHL prospect a few months ago.

It's cherry picking to say he's only picked two NHL defensemen in twelve seasons? That's just a fact that shows how bad he is at evaluating defensive talent. It's also not like Skjei nor Del Zotto are shining examples of good defenders.

I'm sorry I'm not getting excited over him doing his job and drafting players around where they should be drafted. He's good at drafting role players. Awesome. He has no ability to find higher level talent. The Rangers gutted half of his staff over the last few years. They weren't doing well. If anything, recent success is in due part to Bobrov and a revamp of their USHL, Finnish and CHL scouting.

The last two seasons look better, but a majority of his best picks came 11-12 years ago. That's even a stretch to call those picks best because they're: Anisimov, Hagelin, Del Zotto, Weise, and Stepan. I loved Stepan, but if he's your shining example of top quality in over a decade of drafting that's unfortunate.

I just can't get excited over someone doing the bare minimum.

Well I can forgive that since he probably just added three more to the list in this past draft, including 2 that look like they could turn out to be top pairing guys.

Or maybe just be better at drafting in the first place?

I don’t know what you’re referring to regarding Lias and “huge expectations.” From the day he was drafted and based on scouting reports beforehand, it was said all along that he was a high compete guy, characterized by two-way play, high character, leadership and intangibles but that he was not going to blow anyone away with his offense.

His ceiling is that of 15-20 goals, 45-55 points.

 

And he absolutely can still reach that ceiling. He’s played 50 games.

 

Give him time.

That's the narrative that a lot of people have rewritten. No one is knowingly drafting a 45-55 point player with the 7th overall pick. Those were never the expectation of Andersson. The expectations were always that he had a lower ceiling, but a high floor and the ability to step into the NHL immediately. The Rangers legitimately thought they had something better with Andersson. They were targetting Makar, Glass, and Pettersson in the same draft. Why would they suddenly deviate from the type of player they were looking for? Clearly one of skill.

Maybe they're just not the greatest talent evaluators. Forget not that Gordie Clark once called Ryan Gropp, he of 11 AHL goals this season, a top 6 offensive talent in the 2015 draft. Not like a top six player. Like literally one of the top six best offensive players in a draft that included Connor McDavid, Jack Eichel, Mitch Marner, Mikko Rantanen, Kyle Connor, Sebastian Aho...you probably get the point.

Every Org does this, this isn't a Ranger issue.

Show me the study that puts the Rangers at the back of the pack in terms of drafting NHLers. Not just 1st rounders, not just D men. Look at the whole picture.

Beyond that, do you know if Clarke did or did not have a hand in identifying guys like McD, Girardi, Stralman, Deangelo?

Every Org does this, this isn't a Ranger issue.

 

Show me the study that puts the Rangers at the back of the pack in terms of drafting NHLers. Not just 1st rounders, not just D men. Look at the whole picture.

 

Beyond that, do you know if Clarke did or did not have a hand in identifying guys like McD, Girardi, Stralman, Deangelo?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/147xkMx1y9EFISIlGltebfnZRbj3ce0z9UpgDAqdA9SE/edit?usp=sharing

Here's the data ISS puts in its annual draft guide. Represents 2008-2017. Interpret how you will.

I don’t know what you’re referring to regarding Lias and “huge expectations.” From the day he was drafted and based on scouting reports beforehand, it was said all along that he was a high compete guy, characterized by two-way play, high character, leadership and intangibles but that he was not going to blow anyone away with his offense.

His ceiling is that of 15-20 goals, 45-50 points, and quality two-way play awith some passing/play making ability. I’ll absolutely take that player.

 

And he absolutely can still reach that ceiling. He’s played 50 games.

 

Give him time.

He was hyped as a player who was NHL ready playing against men in the SHL and doing well. It's 2 full seasons later and he's looked like garbage during that time. No, I'm not throwing in the towel on him, and yes, I will give him more time. I'm just saying this is the opposite of what they sold him as when they picked him. If they believed his ceiling was 15 goals and 45 points, that's a terrible use of a #7 pick. So I don't buy that.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/147xkMx1y9EFISIlGltebfnZRbj3ce0z9UpgDAqdA9SE/edit?usp=sharing

 

Here's the data ISS puts in its annual draft guide. Represents 2008-2017. Interpret how you will.

They’ve absolutely had drafting issues over the years and under Clarke in his capacities.

But they seem like they’ve moved away from some bad practices and are doing better.

He was hyped as a player who was NHL ready playing against men in the SHL and doing well. It's 2 full seasons later and he's looked like garbage during that time. No, I'm not throwing in the towel on him, and yes, I will give him more time. I'm just saying this is the opposite of what they sold him as when they picked him. If they believed his ceiling was 15 goals and 45 points, that's a terrible use of a #7 pick. So I don't buy that.

That’s true. He was oversold as being close to or at NHL readiness. But it shouldn’t come as a surprise or be a source of disappointment when any 18 year old doesn’t hit that mark early on. Personally I only buy that label on guys picked in the top 2-3 spots, but that’s just me.

As for being picked 7th, I hear you. But everyone knew and said that the 2017 draft was not a great draft class, and that’s a fact.

So you work with that and make the best of it.

If Arizona thought there was anything at #7 you wouldn't have got that pick for Stepan.

If Arizona thought there was anything at #7 you wouldn't have got that pick for Stepan.

Yup. It was a shit draft. Everyone knew it.

They felt better with Step and his large, immovable contract than drafting a kid. By no means did they have a burning desire to acquire Derek Stepan.

But I don’t think Lias was a waste. He has a future in the NHL.

If Arizona thought there was anything at #7 you wouldn't have got that pick for Stepan.

Nah, trades don't always work like this. Arizona could have thought there was something at #7 but weighed whatever they valued there against the immediate impact of acquiring a top-line center who they could be assured would play on their team right then and there.

It's cherry picking to say he's only picked two NHL defensemen in twelve seasons? That's just a fact that shows how bad he is at evaluating defensive talent. It's also not like Skjei nor Del Zotto are shining examples of good defenders.

 

I'm sorry I'm not getting excited over him doing his job and drafting players around where they should be drafted. He's good at drafting role players. Awesome. He has no ability to find higher level talent. The Rangers gutted half of his staff over the last few years. They weren't doing well. If anything, recent success is in due part to Bobrov and a revamp of their USHL, Finnish and CHL scouting.

 

The last two seasons look better, but a majority of his best picks came 11-12 years ago. That's even a stretch to call those picks best because they're: Anisimov, Hagelin, Del Zotto, Weise, and Stepan. I loved Stepan, but if he's your shining example of top quality in over a decade of drafting that's unfortunate.

 

I just can't get excited over someone doing the bare minimum.

 

 

 

Or maybe just be better at drafting in the first place?

"just be better at drafting."

Kinda just sums up your vague expectations.

If Arizona thought there was anything at #7 you wouldn't have got that pick for Stepan.

I don't think the Rangers thought there was anything at 7 either.

They wanted to leverage #7 to move up.

If Arizona thought there was anything at #7 you wouldn't have got that pick for Stepan.

I don't think the Rangers thought there was anything at 7 either.

They wanted to leverage #7 to move up.

I don't think the Rangers thought there was anything at 7 either.

 

They wanted to leverage #7 to move up.

That's probably also true. They certainly tried. We know that much on Makar (Brooks has since confirmed). From what I've been told, had eyes for Pettersson and Glass, too.

That's probably also true. They certainly tried. We know that much on Makar (Brooks has since confirmed). From what I've been told, had eyes for Pettersson and Glass, too.

Told by whom? Just curious

Told by whom? Just curious

I have a few sources close to the team who pass information from time-to-time.