2019 Off-Season Thread: We Got This Bread, Man

Agree. He didn't overpay for anything.

 

Dubas, kid genius, on the other hand... Shitshow.

 

I thought Dubas did pretty well in the Colorado trade. They will miss Kadri. But getting Kerfoot and Barrie, with half of Barrie’s salary retained if only for a year, is a nice deal for them.

 

But on the whole, i do agree with you. That team has been built around some very high, easy to make picks, the residue of their organizational ineptitude.

And I know it’s more about money, but letting Gardiner go is a mistake. Better player than he gets treated as by the fans and media and all up there.

That might be true of Panarin, but he basically stepped in shit with Kakko and the other two forced trades. Not sure how Gorton's hard work comes into play.

I agree about Kakko and Fox, but don't know enough about how the Trouba trade went down to confidently ascribe that to luck. According to the blogosphere, there were at least 3 other teams in the mix (BUF, TOR, DET) and it sounded like Chevy's refusal to let anyone talk to the Trouba camp turned it into a game of chicken at the end while driving the price down. I don't know if JG had inside info (good GMing), believed that Trouba would succumb to the draw of MSG, or just had bigger balls, but he seems to have stuck with the 1st round offer whereas other teams were not willing to without some better indication that they could sign him. (And, as mentioned before, he did have the 2nd 1st in his pocket to play with.) Maybe others have better intel. In the end, he'll get credit for all of it anyway.

 

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Yea, I'm not saying he's a bad GM or anything. He's just been INCREDIBLY fortunate this summer, which has sped up the rebuild dramatically.

 

Some luck you make.

Some luck you make.

 

Like setting out with a clear vision of getting younger and amassing assets, among others the assets required to make those trades - even if there was an element of luck in those players being available and wanting to join the Rangers.

Some luck you make.

Right.

 

But two players forcing trades, a draft lottery, and Panarin happening to hit UFA and wanting to come to NY.... all in the same summer...isn't luck that anyone can make.

Right.

 

But two players forcing trades, a draft lottery, and Panarin happening to hit UFA and wanting to come to NY.... all in the same summer...isn't luck that anyone can make.

 

I think he's got to get some credit for understanding that this team needed to be torn down, having the balls to announce it to the world, and then making all of those subsequent trades to make it happen. This year, with the draft lottery, Fox, Panarin, and Trouba, yeah...most other NHL GM's in his position could have pulled that off but the whole picture since the rebuild letter has been impressive I think.

this thread just turned awesome. great read guys.

 

no doubt he got some puck luck. however there definitely was a plan in place.

 

as happy as i am about kakko, trouba and panarin, i'm more intrigued with some of the second round picks he's made as well as this barron kid.

 

it just looks as if he hasn't wiffed on any pick these past 2 years.

I definitely don't agree that they were the worst drafting team in the league.

 

Have you looked around the league?

 

I mean they swung and missed, hard in some cases, but there are other teams who've been horrendous on the ice and in the draft and way worse than NYR.

 

I saw a WAR analysis of NHL drafts for a recent 5 year period. Probably on Athletic. We were at the absolute bottom. Think our score was a zero. Will try to find again when I get a chance.

Right.

 

But two players forcing trades, a draft lottery, and Panarin happening to hit UFA and wanting to come to NY.... all in the same summer...isn't luck that anyone can make.

 

He gets no credit for the lotto

He gets done credit for getting Trouba and Fox on the cheap, but minimal. Those guys asked out and expressed NY as desirable to them

 

He gets moderate credit on Panarin

Yes he left money on the table and wanted NY. But they still had to successfully pitch him. Even if the credit is just for not fucking it up, that counts

 

But we need on ice results

He’s done very well in executing this rebuild both tactically and strategically.

Now they need to start improving in the standings

 

Very happy and comfortable with him holding the reigns though

But as you’ve seen with the Knicks, if you don’t represent yourself well, those things don’t happen (lottery aside). He didn’t have to trade for trouba or fox. Could have waited on Fox like some suggested and gambled and lost. Could have targeted a different defensenmen than trouba, say Karlsson and lost — or paid way too much.

 

The latter is a Sather move.

 

Let’s not forget he also put his career on the line to release that letter. If he didn’t rebuild this team he may never have worked again. Everything that’s been done has been done boldly and with transparency. He deserves all the credit.

 

Patience.

We discussed trades for all three guys for over a year. Prices came way down.

 

The 2nd, and the combined amount of skill of the 4 acquisitions is astounding. That’s beyond luck.

 

He gets no credit for the lotto

He gets done credit for getting Trouba and Fox on the cheap, but minimal. Those guys asked out and expressed NY as desirable to them

 

He gets moderate credit on Panarin

Yes he left money on the table and wanted NY. But they still had to successfully pitch him. Even if the credit is just for not fucking it up, that counts

 

But we need on ice results

He’s done very well in executing this rebuild both tactically and strategically.

Now they need to start improving in the standings

 

Very happy and comfortable with him holding the reigns though

 

You guys aren't getting what I'm saying here. Each of those moves, in a vacuum and over the course of many months, is great. The fact that they all happened within one month makes a comment like this from ESPN:

 

"...This should be the model for all teams who need to retool, and how to do it in the shortest window possible. It was only February 2018 when the Rangers sent out the now-infamous letter to fans... Seventeen months later, they're poised to win yet again. They signed the most coveted free-agent forward on the market in Panarin, and signed him through his prime years. They acquired a new No. 1 defenseman in Jacob Trouba. They acquired a potential top-four defenseman in Adam Fox. They drafted a generational scoring talent in Kakko. The future is no longer bleak....Overall grade: A

 

Pretty stupid considering the amount of pure luck involved in all 4 players being at the exact points in their careers where they'd come to NY at the same time.

 

Get what I'm saying? Gorton for sure gets some credit for some moves, but I can't give him credit with the speed of the rebuild when so many stars aligned just this summer. Nor do I think he could roll into, say Edmonton, and have the same success because players don't force trades there or go there as UFA.

 

Make sense?

You guys aren't getting what I'm saying here. Each of those moves, in a vacuum and over the course of many months, is great. The fact that they all happened within one month makes a comment like this from ESPN:

 

 

 

Pretty stupid considering the amount of pure luck involved in all 4 players being at the exact points in their careers where they'd come to NY at the same time.

 

Get what I'm saying? Gorton for sure gets some credit for some moves, but I can't give him credit with the speed of the rebuild when so many stars aligned just this summer. Nor do I think he could roll into, say Edmonton, and have the same success because players don't force trades there or go there as UFA.

 

Make sense?

 

Yeah that statement in the ESPN article isn't completely accurate, but it's not far off. Fixed version:

 

...This should be the model for all teams who need to retool, and how to give themselves an opportunity to do it in the shortest window possible.

You guys aren't getting what I'm saying here. Each of those moves, in a vacuum and over the course of many months, is great. The fact that they all happened within one month makes a comment like this from ESPN:

 

 

 

Pretty stupid considering the amount of pure luck involved in all 4 players being at the exact points in their careers where they'd come to NY at the same time.

 

Get what I'm saying? Gorton for sure gets some credit for some moves, but I can't give him credit with the speed of the rebuild when so many stars aligned just this summer. Nor do I think he could roll into, say Edmonton, and have the same success because players don't force trades there or go there as UFA.

 

Make sense?

Makes perfect sense. Having the original 6, MSG, and NYC in general makes Gordons job easier then many teams. And no one's saying he didn't do his do diligence as GM but luck and lure played big parts.

 

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That might be true of Panarin, but he basically stepped in shit with Kakko and the other two forced trades. Not sure how Gorton's hard work comes into play.

 

Yep sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

You guys aren't getting what I'm saying here. Each of those moves, in a vacuum and over the course of many months, is great. The fact that they all happened within one month makes a comment like this from ESPN:

 

 

 

Pretty stupid considering the amount of pure luck involved in all 4 players being at the exact points in their careers where they'd come to NY at the same time.

 

Get what I'm saying? Gorton for sure gets some credit for some moves, but I can't give him credit with the speed of the rebuild when so many stars aligned just this summer. Nor do I think he could roll into, say Edmonton, and have the same success because players don't force trades there or go there as UFA.

 

Make sense?

 

I get you

 

Didn’t realize you were focusing more on the frame of time over the moves themselves

Yes. When you consider that, it’s exceedingly lucky

You guys aren't getting what I'm saying here. Each of those moves, in a vacuum and over the course of many months, is great. The fact that they all happened within one month makes a comment like this from ESPN:

 

 

 

Pretty stupid considering the amount of pure luck involved in all 4 players being at the exact points in their careers where they'd come to NY at the same time.

 

Get what I'm saying? Gorton for sure gets some credit for some moves, but I can't give him credit with the speed of the rebuild when so many stars aligned just this summer. Nor do I think he could roll into, say Edmonton, and have the same success because players don't force trades there or go there as UFA.

 

Make sense?

 

I get you

 

Didn?t realize you were focusing more on the frame of time over the moves themselves

Yes. When you consider that, it?s exceedingly lucky

A good portion of it fell in Gorton?s lap

this thread just turned awesome. great read guys.

 

no doubt he got some puck luck. however there definitely was a plan in place.

 

as happy as i am about kakko, trouba and panarin, i'm more intrigued with some of the second round picks he's made as well as this barron kid.

 

it just looks as if he hasn't wiffed on any pick these past 2 years.

 

Lias Andersson says hold my beer. At # 7 he could turn out to be a wiff.

Lias Andersson says hold my beer. At # 7 he could turn out to be a wiff.

 

True

 

But I think we are either something disastrous or a 150 games away from making a fair assessment of him. And while they oversold his NHL readiness, they never oversold his ability level, ceiling, or skill set.

True

 

But I think we are either something disastrous or a 150 games away from making a fair assessment of him. And while they oversold his NHL readiness, they never oversold his ability level, ceiling, or skill set.

 

That?s what worries me. What they saw in him

Isn?t there.

 

I still have hope but at #7 that should have been a better player.

 

 

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I definitely don't agree that they were the worst drafting team in the league.

 

Have you looked around the league?

 

I mean they swung and missed, hard in some cases, but there are other teams who've been horrendous on the ice and in the draft and way worse than NYR.

 

We did pretty solid there with pics for a while.

2004- Callahan, Dubinsky, Montoya

2005- Staal, Sauer, Pyatt

2006/07- Cherepenov, Hagelin, Anisimov

2008/09- Stepan, Kreider, Del Zotto, Weise

 

Montoya and Cherepenov being difficult situations. But can?t take away from what was 13 NHL long term players in 5 drafts

 

 

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Lias Andersson says hold my beer. At # 7 he could turn out to be a wiff.

He presumably also says “I wasn’t drafted in the last 2 years”.

Really not in the 2017 draft as shown on hockeydb

Pretty sure the point was in the last 2 drafts, ie 2018 and 2019.

Which of course is debatable because the Lindbom pick looks highly questionable.

Pretty sure the point was in the last 2 drafts, ie 2018 and 2019.

Which of course is debatable because the Lindbom pick looks highly questionable.

Why is Lindbom highly questionable?

 

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Because they went off the board to pick a goaltender early in the second round with talented guys still available and with absolutely no organizational need for him whatsoever.

He might turn out to be good, who knows, but it was a questionable pick then and nothing has happened since to suggest otherwise.