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Thread: McKenzie: "Rangers want to get better in a hurry,"

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    This.

    The main issue all year has been D. Replacing Pionk with Karlsson is already a huge improvement. Hajek and Rykov should be improvements over Smith, McQuaid, Cleasson, (and probably Staal at least mobility wise).

    I think adding Paranin and Karlsson next year with those two other young d-men makes this a playoff team in the metro next year. Could even get an added bonus from our first rounder this summer depending on where it falls. Then in the 2nd or at worst 3rd year of the Panarin and Karlsson contract's Miller, Lundkvist, and the last 2019 first rounders should be pushing for spots. In year 3 Panarin is 30 and Karlsson is 31. That timing is fine. As they hit the back end of their contracts Chytil, Kravtsov, Miller, Lundqvist, and the 2019 first round picks should be taking over the bulk of the production anyway.
    Staal / Pionk
    Smith / Skjei
    Claesson / Shattenkirk
    DeAngelo

    <<



    >>

    Skjei / Karlsson
    Hajek / DeAngelo
    Staal / Rykov
    Claesson
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Also...

    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sod16 View Post
    I agree. I see Panarin as being like Datsyuk in terms of lasting a long time. The only thing about Panarin is that he seems to take some nights off. He was breathtaking when Columbus got the jump on Washington last year, but then wasn't a big factor. I've definitely seen games when he was pretty ordinary. Now Panarin is at a totally different level, but can you imagine how excited you would be by Vesey or Buchnevich if you happened to just catch a couple of their "on" games.
    Or the eventual cup winner stopped dicking around with Grubauer, put their Vezina winning goalie back in, and decided they weren't going to let one guy beat them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Staal / Pionk
    Smith / Skjei
    Claesson / Shattenkirk
    DeAngelo

    <<



    >>

    Skjei / Karlsson
    Hajek / DeAngelo
    Staal / Rykov
    Claesson
    *boards this train*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sod16 View Post
    I agree. I see Panarin as being like Datsyuk in terms of lasting a long time. The only thing about Panarin is that he seems to take some nights off. He was breathtaking when Columbus got the jump on Washington last year, but then wasn't a big factor. I've definitely seen games when he was pretty ordinary. Now Panarin is at a totally different level, but can you imagine how excited you would be by Vesey or Buchnevich if you happened to just catch a couple of their "on" games.
    Panarin is a PPG player after 300 games. Any comparison to Buch or Vesey is funny.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    How is Karlsson a declining player? Playing 25 minutes a night and right at his career ppg.
    "When healthy".

  7. #107
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    I honestly haven't watched much of him since he went to the Sharks, but even on one foot, I can't help but feel like he's so far superior to anything the Rangers can hope to skate in place of his would-be roster spot next year that you have to at least entertain the idea.

    Like, the difference between this:

    Skjei / Karlsson
    Hajek / DeAngelo
    Staal / Rykov
    Claesson

    And this:

    Skjei / DeAngelo
    Hajek / Pionk
    Staal / Rykov
    Claesson

    Is fucking stark.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Panarain at $11m a year has a very real possibility of being a problem.
    A problem?! How on earth could signing a world class winger suddenly be a problem? There is literally no sign that he will slow down or face injuries. All signs point to Panarin being an elite winger for the next 4-6 years.

    In theory, which free agent should the Rangers ever sign by that logic? There are risks to any deal, but that does not mean you should never do deals.

    A re-build is about selling your assets to bring in new faces, preferably world class talent. Here is a world class talent - and you would seriously turn him down because he would make the team too good too early?

    People are seriously overthinking this and are way to focused on tanking. It's not about taking - it's about building a new world class roster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    "When healthy".
    Applies to every player in a contact sport...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    I honestly haven't watched much of him since he went to the Sharks, but even on one foot, I can't help but feel like he's so far superior to anything the Rangers can hope to skate in place of his would-be roster spot next year that you have to at least entertain the idea.

    Like, the difference between this:

    Skjei / Karlsson
    Hajek / DeAngelo
    Staal / Rykov
    Claesson

    And this:

    Skjei / DeAngelo
    Hajek / Pionk
    Staal / Rykov
    Claesson

    Is fucking stark.
    As evidenced by his #'s this season, Karlsson's foot is fine. He's out with a groin injury.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    I honestly haven't watched much of him since he went to the Sharks, but even on one foot, I can't help but feel like he's so far superior to anything the Rangers can hope to skate in place of his would-be roster spot next year that you have to at least entertain the idea.

    Like, the difference between this:

    Skjei / Karlsson
    Hajek / DeAngelo
    Staal / Rykov
    Claesson

    And this:

    Skjei / DeAngelo
    Hajek / Pionk
    Staal / Rykov
    Claesson

    Is fucking stark.
    Realistic:

    Smith - -

    Staal - Pionk
    Skjei - Shattenkirk/McQuaid
    Staal - Pionk

    scratched: DeAngelo



    As for Karlsson with the Sharks, I don't see the same assertiveness, as much. He doesn't "take the lead" and take over the games like he used. Not because he cant, but almost a "doesnt want to step on toes" approach, like he's not supposed to do that in SJ. The beginning of the season was worse.
    When he's played injured, his defense has been bad, too. Resembles RW Karlsson from his early Ottawa days, with less speed. Well, maybe not that bad, as he thinks the game better, now.
    Last edited by josh; 03-13-2019 at 04:47 PM.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Realistic:

    Smith - -

    Staal - Pionk
    Skjei - Shattenkirk/McQuaid
    Staal - Pionk

    scratched: DeAngelo
    LOL.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
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  12. #112
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    Staal and Pionk. So good we're playing them twice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Panarin is only a year and a half older than Zib, has 168 less games of wear and tear on him, and doesn't have the injury history. Having the pair of them as a 1-2 punch at a combined $16M for the next 3 years is a no brainer and a great place to start building.
    Zibanejad is also signed to a contract that is half to what panarin is going to get. Which is the entire point. The term and the money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenvold View Post
    A problem?! How on earth could signing a world class winger suddenly be a problem? There is literally no sign that he will slow down or face injuries. All signs point to Panarin being an elite winger for the next 4-6 years.

    In theory, which free agent should the Rangers ever sign by that logic? There are risks to any deal, but that does not mean you should never do deals.

    A re-build is about selling your assets to bring in new faces, preferably world class talent. Here is a world class talent - and you would seriously turn him down because he would make the team too good too early?

    People are seriously overthinking this and are way to focused on tanking. It's not about taking - it's about building a new world class roster.
    I’m not sure how you ask that. This league is littered with players who sign massive contracts they don’t live up to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenvold View Post
    A problem?! How on earth could signing a world class winger suddenly be a problem? There is literally no sign that he will slow down or face injuries. All signs point to Panarin being an elite winger for the next 4-6 years.

    In theory, which free agent should the Rangers ever sign by that logic? There are risks to any deal, but that does not mean you should never do deals.

    A re-build is about selling your assets to bring in new faces, preferably world class talent. Here is a world class talent - and you would seriously turn him down because he would make the team too good too early?

    People are seriously overthinking this and are way to focused on tanking. It's not about taking - it's about building a new world class roster.

    As far as being to good to early. Why don’t you stick to your own words and not put them into my mouth. Stop making shit up in other words. Panarin will not make them good at all actually. This team is so flawed that anyone realistically thinking this team is an annual contender again in a year or two is blind. It doesn’t happen and won’t happen. Even the leafs who are a successful rebuild has taken 5-7 years and hit on lottery luck. Panarin will help this team in the next couple of years. However by the time this team is good it’s just as likely that at point he’s underperforming his contract, which would be a drag on the team we waited years for to see.

  16. #116
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    A big part for me here is that I don’t think panarin is a franchise player. I also not on board with else injury concerns. They exist no matter how anyone wants to spin it.
    With this being my first thought on both players it easy for me to not want to take the risk with where the team sits. So please enough of the false points littered through here. I don’t want to suck, I don’t want to not be good to quick, I don’t never want to sign a ufa,etc etc. what I don’t want is to take risks when the reward isn’t worth the risk. I’m not doing anything to this team that could hamper the team 4-5 years from now.

  17. #117
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    In 50 years since the true amateur draft started in 1969 (it wasn't a real draft before that), the Rangers have succeeded in drafting a total of three truly elite players: Middleton, Leetch and Hank. There have also been some "near elites," like Vickers, James Patrick, Sandstrom and Beezer. Point is, you don't win cups without some elite players, and you can't rely on the draft to get them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Zibanejad is also signed to a contract that is half to what panarin is going to get. Which is the entire point. The term and the money.
    Zib and Skjei are also the only players signed for more than the next two years. Sign Panarin and Karlsson for $22 million, plus Skjei and Zib is about $33 million. That gives you $50 million plus to deal with all your RFAs. Kravtsov, Rykov, Shesty, Miller, Lundkvist, and any 2019 picks will still be on their ELC.

    Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile...ed by Tapatalk

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    Just because you have space doesn’t mean you have to spend at at the first guy that comes around. I’ll say it again othersas good and better will be available in the next three years. If the goal is contending in 3-5 years why not wait or at least seethe value in thinking about waiting to see how your roster evolves some. I know we can draw up our lineup cards for next year but that’s video game shit. You have to take into account that some prospects will disappoint and some will surprise. Kravtsov is a great prospect but we’re just spotting him into the top six next year? Hajek played four games and looked ok bows slotted into our top four, presto. These guys all may work out but it’s probably going to take years before they are consistent pros. Meaning this team is going to take years to become anything more than they are now

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Just because you have space doesn’t mean you have to spend at at the first guy that comes around. I’ll say it again othersas good and better will be available in the next three years. If the goal is contending in 3-5 years why not wait or at least seethe value in thinking about waiting to see how your roster evolves some. I know we can draw up our lineup cards for next year but that’s video game shit. You have to take into account that some prospects will disappoint and some will surprise. Kravtsov is a great prospect but we’re just spotting him into the top six next year? Hajek played four games and looked ok bows slotted into our top four, presto. These guys all may work out but it’s probably going to take years before they are consistent pros. Meaning this team is going to take years to become anything more than they are now
    All due respect this just sounds like being contrarian for contrarian sake. I wouldn't call Panarin "the first guy to come around". He's probably one of the best players to hit UFA in some time, and he wants to come to the Rangers, and he's 27 years old. Let's not act like it's Frolov or Kotalik here.

    Which players who are as good or better, at his age, are slated to hit UFA in the next 3 years?

    I don't anyone expects the prospects to step right in or that we'll be competing for a Cup tomorrow, but when you factor in development time, time to gel as a team, etc., it's not unrealistic that they start making noise in what will likely continue to be a weak-ish Metro the season after next.

    Panarin (and Karlsson) are going to available now, and there are no guaruntees anyone "as good or better" will ever hit UFA.

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