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McKenzie: "Rangers want to get better in a hurry,"


Phil

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#suck(forthreeyears)forsavoie

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-can-maple-leafs-marriage-coach-gm-last/

Friedman's 31 Thoughts

11. Another interesting junior hockey story involves Matt Savoie. The 15-year-old from St. Albert, Alta., was rejected for “exceptional player” status by Hockey Canada. In return, he announced on Twitter a commitment to NCAA Denver for 2021-22. This led to plenty of gossip that Savoie was letting everyone know that when he does get drafted into the WHL, it better be to a situation he prefers. (Jeff Marek reported that Shane Wright, given the exceptional status into the OHL, had agreed as part of the process to go wherever he was selected. That will be Kingston.)

 

I looked into that, and got some pushback. By going to Denver, Savoie knows he can play with older brother Carter, who has already committed to the Colorado school. They can also go to the USHL together, because players can pick their spots.

 

Drama already!

 

And I didn't realize he wasnt granted exceptional player status.

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WHL has never had a player achieve that status and if Savoie didn't qualify nobody will.

 

Yet, in the OHL, Sean Day got it lol. OK.

 

I think it would be super if he ends up declining any invites to Hockey Canada international events. I'd support that 100%.

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I'm late to the Savoie bandwagon, too. All last year one of my managers, who is president of a Minor Hockey Assoc in AB, kept telling me "You gotta come watch this kid, you gotta come watch this kid, you gotta come watch this kid" and I was all stand-offish thinking it was nothing.

 

Then a month ago I asked him "Have you heard of this Savoie kid, what can you tell me?"

 

Hahaha

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Panarin, Karlsson, and Zib would be the core. Under 30 years old. Supported by 7 or 8 1st round picks over a three year span. Plus Hajek, Rykov, Howden, Lemieux, and the other young pieces added over the last couple years.

 

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

 

My only concern would be signing those players to long term contracts where they are 28 and 29 in the first year. We?ve probably seen the peak of each player and a future downward trend.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

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My only concern would be signing those players to long term contracts where they are 28 and 29 in the first year. We?ve probably seen the peak of each player and a future downward trend.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

 

On Karlsson, yes. On Panarin, no. Or, in his case, the downward trend is going to be incredibly graceful a la Datsyuk.

 

 

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My biggest concern for next year is not adding a nhl center or two to this team. After Zibanejad who do they have? I know the kids but I’m not sure counting on that is a good idea. And I’m talking about their development not winning games. Pressure is going to mount rightly or not for them to produce. It would be nice to shelter them if need be. If they surprise them great but there should be a plan in place to avoid them struggling as much as possible.
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How could you possibly know that? Is he even half the defensive player datsyuk was?

 

I'm talking about offensive impact relative to age. Panarin has very few NHL miles on him, so he's not your traditional 28-year-old in free agency (think Anders Lee). This, combined with his style of play, lend to a graceful downside where he should be able to remain a high-level player well into his thirties.

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My biggest concern for next year is not adding a nhl center or two to this team. After Zibanejad who do they have? I know the kids but I’m not sure counting on that is a good idea. And I’m talking about their development not winning games. Pressure is going to mount rightly or not for them to produce. It would be nice to shelter them if need be. If they surprise them great but there should be a plan in place to avoid them struggling as much as possible.

Strome, Namestnikov

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My biggest concern for next year is not adding a nhl center or two to this team. After Zibanejad who do they have? I know the kids but I?m not sure counting on that is a good idea. And I?m talking about their development not winning games. Pressure is going to mount rightly or not for them to produce. It would be nice to shelter them if need be. If they surprise them great but there should be a plan in place to avoid them struggling as much as possible.
Zib is 1. Howden is 3. For two there is multiple scenarios. A) They moved Chytil back to center last night. We'll see how he looks in camp going into his sophomore year. B) They can draft a center in the top 5 that makes the team a la Kotkaniemi. C) Worse comes to worst both Strome or Names can center the #2 line and I'd prefer either of them to signing Dzingel.

 

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Zib is 1. Howden is 3. For two there is multiple scenarios. A) They moved Chytil back to center last night. We'll see how he looks in camp going into his sophomore year. B) They can draft a center in the top 5 that makes the team a la Kotkaniemi. C) Worse comes to worst both Strome or Names can center the #2 line and I'd prefer either of them to signing Dzingel.

 

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

 

Hughes fills that #1 spot quite nicely

 

 

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Each scenario is awful, unless chytil is ready to take on that role. Why you wouldn’t insulate him though is hard to understand. It wouldn’t be so bad slitting him there the problem is the depth below him. They are unpolished kids too, who maybe over their heads.

 

The more I think about the more I’m against panarin. Signing him leaves little to no money to address what’s actually wrong with this team or even stabilize this team so players can properly develop. On top of that Hartford isn’t a great place for developing players either. Both of those things can be addressed by adding depth throughout the organization.

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I'm talking about offensive impact relative to age. Panarin has very few NHL miles on him, so he's not your traditional 28-year-old in free agency (think Anders Lee). This, combined with his style of play, lend to a graceful downside where he should be able to remain a high-level player well into his thirties.

 

For 7-8 years and a no-move clause, still a gamble that Panarin is good in the playoffs and fits whatever our team philosophy is 3+ years down the road when we are trying to win a Cup.

 

My biggest concern for next year is not adding a nhl center or two to this team. After Zibanejad who do they have? I know the kids but I’m not sure counting on that is a good idea. And I’m talking about their development not winning games. Pressure is going to mount rightly or not for them to produce. It would be nice to shelter them if need be. If they surprise them great but there should be a plan in place to avoid them struggling as much as possible.

 

'Development' should mostly take place in the minors, at NHL level Rangers are going to rack up the losses next year as well unless management abandons a rebuild. Rangers are years away from being a Stanley Cup contender. Doing the rebuild right means the product on the ice is going to be hard to watch sometimes.

 

Adding a pricy winger (Panarin) doesn't help this team's issues at center or defense or aging no. 1 goaltender.

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Zib is 1. Howden is 3. For two there is multiple scenarios. A) They moved Chytil back to center last night. We'll see how he looks in camp going into his sophomore year. B) They can draft a center in the top 5 that makes the team a la Kotkaniemi. C) Worse comes to worst both Strome or Names can center the #2 line and I'd prefer either of them to signing Dzingel.

 

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Panarin is worth any of these to put on the top line. The middle 6 holes can and should be filled from within the org, not through using up the money on a guy like Dzingel. All this talk about the kids failing, and no talk about where to play them if they progress. Having open spots creates a competition to claim them. Chytil won't be given the 2C role unless he has earned it in camp. Signing an FA to take the spot away is not a good way to rebuild. Hitting on the draft would be nice too. Cross your fingers!

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My biggest concern for next year is not adding a nhl center or two to this team. After Zibanejad who do they have? I know the kids but I?m not sure counting on that is a good idea. And I?m talking about their development not winning games. Pressure is going to mount rightly or not for them to produce. It would be nice to shelter them if need be. If they surprise them great but there should be a plan in place to avoid them struggling as much as possible.

 

I don't understand this, can you clarify what scenario this would be? If they don't sign Panarin and/or Karlsson?

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around where you're coming from so I can understand. If your main concern is that we don't have centers, so you want to add centers instead of Panarin and Karlsson, what problem are we solving...Not signing them means there are zero expectations next year. Zib / Chytil / Howden / Lias with Strome and Names is fine for a team that's not expecting to make noise. No one is going to expect production from Chytil, Howden or Lias. Juse improvement. No one expects those guys to carry a team in their 2nd years.

 

If you want to add centers because you think we're gonna be bad otherwise...and the idea is to get good...Why not add Panarin and Karlsson? I don't get it.

 

Either way, a guy like Dzingel doesn't make us a better team now, or later for that matter. It's just treading water. He makes us not good enough to do anything and not bad enough to get a decent pick.

 

I want to understand the logic because I feel like alot of people are hammering you here, but you're kind of all over the place, too.

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For 7-8 years and a no-move clause, still a gamble that Panarin is good in the playoffs and fits whatever our team philosophy is 3+ years down the road when we are trying to win a Cup.

 

 

 

'Development' should mostly take place in the minors, at NHL level Rangers are going to rack up the losses next year as well unless management abandons a rebuild. Rangers are years away from being a Stanley Cup contender. Doing the rebuild right means the product on the ice is going to be hard to watch sometimes.

 

Adding a pricy winger (Panarin) doesn't help this team's issues at center or defense or aging no. 1 goaltender.

The team doesn't have an issue at center. Defense will be solved by combo of Miller, Hajek, Lindqvist, Rykov and addition by subtraction of Pionk, Staal, Smith, Shatty. Aging #1 goalie solved by Georgie and Shesty.

 

Panarin doesn't solve every ailment for next season, but by the year after it probably keeps us from saying "Kravtsov and Zib can't be the only offense we have".

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The team doesn't have an issue at center. Defense will be solved by combo of Miller, Hajek, Lindqvist, Rykov and addition by subtraction of Pionk, Staal, Smith, Shatty. Aging #1 goalie solved by Georgie and Shesty.

 

Panarin doesn't solve every ailment for next season, but by the year after it probably keeps us from saying "Kravtsov and Zib can't be the only offense we have".

 

why are we trying to solve ailments for next season, or the season after that? another season of sucking helps us, although it is rough on the fans

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Look at our top six forwards, and top two defenseman pairings. How many of those names would you associate with a top first or second line on a Stanley Cup champion? Then ask yourself how many years is it going to take to accumulate that kind of talent in those ten roster spots. Probably more than a year or two. OK, Panarin would be one piece. Is he still viable when we are ready to contend?
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It's not a linear issue. I would wager they become "ready to contend" rather serendipitously as opposed to some grand scheme.

 

There are teams that have been on this path for nearing a decade and are no closer now then they were at the start.

 

I favour bold moves. Big, bold moves rather than waiting for our stars to align via years of drafting in advantageous positions because we're a laughing stock.

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Each scenario is awful, unless chytil is ready to take on that role. Why you wouldn’t insulate him though is hard to understand. It wouldn’t be so bad slitting him there the problem is the depth below him. They are unpolished kids too, who maybe over their heads.

 

The more I think about the more I’m against panarin. Signing him leaves little to no money to address what’s actually wrong with this team or even stabilize this team so players can properly develop. On top of that Hartford isn’t a great place for developing players either. Both of those things can be addressed by adding depth throughout the organization.

 

I think people put too much emphasis on line numbers. Its not that important. You can easily start a game with:

 

Vesey - Zib - Kravtsov

Panarin - Chytil - Buch

Lemuiex - Howden - Names

 

You can 'insulate' kids with how you deploy them. Kotkaniemi plays 14 minutes a night and gets 63% OZ starts. You can easily give that to Chytil or Kravtsov in the above lineup. Look at Dubois' deployment with Panarin on his wing. Need a goal late in the third? You can easily put Panarin and Zib together. Protecting a lead? You can easily drop Chytil and Kravtsov down and move Names and Fast up. And that's just next season. The year after, everyone's better.

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There is more to developing players than just waiting for them to get a year older. You can teach them to compete, but you also have to teach them to win. Maybe having someone other than a 50-pt player could help develop some of the guys into more than... 50-pt players.
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I don't understand this, can you clarify what scenario this would be? If they don't sign Panarin and/or Karlsson?

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around where you're coming from so I can understand. If your main concern is that we don't have centers, so you want to add centers instead of Panarin and Karlsson, what problem are we solving...Not signing them means there are zero expectations next year. Zib / Chytil / Howden / Lias with Strome and Names is fine for a team that's not expecting to make noise. No one is going to expect production from Chytil, Howden or Lias. Juse improvement. No one expects those guys to carry a team in their 2nd years.

 

If you want to add centers because you think we're gonna be bad otherwise...and the idea is to get good...Why not add Panarin and Karlsson? I don't get it.

 

Either way, a guy like Dzingel doesn't make us a better team now, or later for that matter. It's just treading water. He makes us not good enough to do anything and not bad enough to get a decent pick.

 

I want to understand the logic because I feel like alot of people are hammering you here, but you're kind of all over the place, too.

 

My logic is to deepen our roster depth. To yes kind of tread water for a year or two to develop the kids while also putting a competitive team on the ice. One that would not be a laughing stock. The kids would still have all the opportunity to take as many minutes as possible. If chytil performs he would take the 2nd kind center spot or the minutes you would hand out to a player in that role. Anderson and Howden would be given the opportunity to play and succeed as would Hajek and whomever else. It would be their spots to lose but if they can?t handle an advanced role they could be sheltered into less minutes and better match ups. To do that there has to be guys here to fill those roles at least somewhat. If competition is what we can all agree upon being good for development than how do the rangers achieve that? Adding veteran players on short term deals would accomplish this as there isn?t much in the organization that isn?t already here. Yes Kravtsov but that is it for next year.

If the goal isn?t to be a wasteland here for years than the most prudent way to build any team is down the middle and on defense. The defense has guys coming but years away. The current group is awful as a whole. The center position as it stands has Zibanejad and then all kids who have struggled. Their struggles are expected and more will come. To help them it would benefit the group to add a adequate nhl player to help soften their matchups and give the coach another option when a night off is needed.

 

Signing panarin and ek is very popular. It?s probably going to happen. The argument for signing them is all about their effect years from now. All with the assumption that the kids grow into core that can contend. My issue is that nobody know what those two will be three to six years from now. Paying $12m a year is risky, period. The kids turning into that core is equally in doubt if not more so. Chytil looks like a decent bet but Anderson and Howden don?t like more than bottom six players. I know it?s early. Everybody else is an unknown as far as the kids.

 

Pretty much everybody here will tell you how draft picks are basically lottery tickets and how few ever become good nhl players. It?s always the argument against trading anyone. Yet as soon as we draft those picks and names are put next to them. Those names are magically inserted into substantial roles throughout thexrangers lineup. Fact is when you list all of the rangers prospects most of them are going to disappoint and fail. Which in the end means this rebuild isn?t taking two or three years. It?s unrealistic. Always has been. Which is why I don?t see the need to committing to long term massive deals because the reality is five years from now those guys could actually hurt what is a good team

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?I think you guys are looking to upgrade,? began Friedman.

 

?Like right away upgrade,? clarified Marek.

 

?Yes,? replied Friedman. ?Panarin.?

 

?We?ve got Zibanejad, we?ve got Lundqvist, boom,? said Marek.

 

?One of the more interesting stories now is going to be Erik Karlsson,? continued Friedman. ?And we?ll see where he is health-wise when he comes back. Doesn?t sound like he?s going to be back much before the playoffs, if then.

 

?You know, I wonder if he could become a Ranger target. When he?s played this year, he?s been dynamite. You?re wondering about the injuries and I think he?s doing the best thing he can, is sitting out until he gets healthy - don?t risk it. But I wonder about the Rangers and Karlsson, how interested they?re going to be. I could see him loving playing there.?

 

?Everybody does,? whispered Marek.

 

?Yes,? agreed Friedman.

 

?Everybody loves that city,? noted Marek. ?What?s not to love about it.?

 

https://www.nicholsonhockey.com/archives/2019/3/21/friedman-i-wonder-about-the-rangers-and-karlsson

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