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McKenzie: "Rangers want to get better in a hurry,"


Phil

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Panarin is not a needle mover. He is not a top ten player in the league. At least imo. Taylor hall is ufa next year. Is he resigning with the devils?

 

74 points in 67 games and 307 in 310 career games doesn't move the needle? Seriously?

 

Panarin will be a free agent and reportedly wants to play here.

 

The fact you're still having to ask if Hall will make it is all the reason you should need to not count on it (or hope for it). And that says nothing of convincing him to join his current team's biggest rival in free agency.

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Why does it have to be a ufa either? Having plenty of cap space allows the rangers to be players on the trade front as well. Even taking back money to acquire favorable young players to build a core.

 

Nobody is going to change me mind here. You guys want him great. You will probably get him. I just don’t see it as being anything other than throwing a bond to a fan base. It’s a marketing signing not one about contending.

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Why does it have to be a ufa either? Having plenty of cap space allows the rangers to be players on the trade front as well. Even taking back money to acquire favorable young players to build a core.

 

Nobody is going to change me mind here. You guys want him great. You will probably get him. I just don’t see it as being anything other than throwing a bond to a fan base. It’s a marketing signing not one about contending.

 

Because free agents cost nothing but money. Trades dilute the depth of the team the player you are dealing for will play on. Certainly in exchange for a would-be needle-mover.

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Because free agents cost nothing but money. Trades dilute the depth of the team the player you are dealing for will play on. Certainly in exchange for a would-be needle-mover.

 

So go sign him then. Let’s see the needle move like it did in Columbus. Last year person after person told me Columbus was the barometer to judge what a contender looks like. Bounced with a whimper in round one last year and now fighting for the 8 seed. All with a superior team other than panarin than the rangers. For s player who moves the needle do much what’s the problem? Where is the team success that surrounds his massive talents and elite status? They don’t exist.

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And to take anyone serious here. Panarin is elite but hall is not. That is laughable. Hall has carried a team on his back. Again not advocating for hall but the idea these guys don’t come around is just false. And yes there are never handfuls of elite talents year in year out as ufas but there only needs to be one. The rangers should buy that guy eventually. In my mibd when they are ready and when their roster situation revels itself. As far as next year goes and developing I think they are better served spending money trying to bring multiple guys here to strengthen the d core. Because lord knows the first thing Quinn wants is a team built on good defensive structure. The shinny toys and finishers should be added to a system like that.
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And to take anyone serious here. Panarin is elite but hall is not. That is laughable. Hall has carried a team on his back.

 

Who said Hall isn't elite? You're tilting at windmills.

 

Again not advocating for hall but the idea these guys don’t come around is just false. And yes there are never handfuls of elite talents year in year out as ufas but there only needs to be one.

 

You mean like Panarin?

 

And no, it's not false. The vast majority of players, especially superstar-level players, re-sign with their teams and forego free agency.

 

The rangers should buy that guy eventually. In my mibd when they are ready and when their roster situation revels itself. As far as next year goes and developing I think they are better served spending money trying to bring multiple guys here to strengthen the d core. Because lord knows the first thing Quinn wants is a team built on good defensive structure. The shinny toys and finishers should be added to a system like that.

 

This is pie in the sky. It suggests that guy will actually be available at whatever point you are comfortable buying when history suggests he's unlikely to be. That's when team's get stupid and sign Loui Eriksson because he's the next best thing.

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The rangers should buy that guy eventually. In my mibd when they are ready and when their roster situation revels itself.

 

What do you do in the meantime? Swim in mediocrity that results in lukewarm 1st round draft pick position? Or rip it down more? Or try to improve the team with other FAs?

 

There has to be a good alternative plan to passing on a guy like Panarin. The only one I can piece together in my head that makes sense is to rip it down more. Trade Kreider. Possibly trade Zibanejad. Really tank for a top 3 pick, maybe 2 of them. Keeping the team the same and being happy with a 10-15 pick every year is not a great way to find the elite talent you need.

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Who said Hall isn't elite? You're tilting at windmills.

 

 

 

You mean like Panarin?

 

And no, it's not false. The vast majority of players, especially superstar-level players, re-sign with their teams and forego free agency.

 

 

 

This is pie in the sky. It suggests that guy will actually be available at whatever point you are comfortable buying when history suggests he's unlikely to be. That's when team's get stupid and sign Loui Eriksson because he's the next best thing.

 

Why is it pie in the sky? Why is it that this fan base sees the need to have to be in on every single guy that does become available. At the very least why can’t they even leave room for a different idea!

 

Where is the actual proof of panarin moving the needle for the team he plays for? Did Columbus improve? You want to throw stats at me fine then let’s look at team records. Did they improve? So the rangers will finish around 80 points this year more than likely. So with panarin what’s the expectation?

 

As far as hall goes. You have no idea if he resigns. What I do know is that if the rangers sign panarin they won’t be able to sign hall. What I do know is that if they sign panarin and ek they become far less likely in the future to be able to be involved if a bigger or better name becomes available. What I do know is that signing panarin doesn’t make them a contender next year or the year after that. Nobody even knows if the rangers have a capable goalie in two/three years. There are so many holes and questions with this team. Adding panarin would certainly fill a hole. But at $11 or $12m a year? No thanks not ready for that.

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What do you do in the meantime? Swim in mediocrity that results in lukewarm 1st round draft pick position? Or rip it down more? Or try to improve the team with other FAs?

 

There has to be a good alternative plan to passing on a guy like Panarin. The only one I can piece together in my head that makes sense is to rip it down more. Trade Kreider. Possibly trade Zibanejad. Really tank for a top 3 pick, maybe 2 of them. Keeping the team the same and being happy with a 10-15 pick every year is not a great way to find the elite talent you need.

 

Why don’t we start with what the core is of this new team. List the guys we are building around.

Zibanejad and skeij, if I give you skeij are the only proven guys I can see

Kreider if they resign him and commit big money and big term

Chytil, Anderson, Howden, Hajek, ada, pionk. All are probably yes but none are sure things.

Buch I don’t know. He’s far from a consistent nhl player

Strome, fast, Namestnikov, nieve, lemieux, Vesey. I don’t think the rangers are committed to any of them as far as a core of the future. Lemieux possibly but a bottom six guy.

 

So what’s the core? Zibenjad and skeij and pray? Some of the young guys will pan out and some won’t. But most will take considerably longer to get their legs under them than most want to admit.

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Why is it pie in the sky? Why is it that this fan base sees the need to have to be in on every single guy that does become available. At the very least why can’t they even leave room for a different idea!

 

This was explained in the very next sentence I wrote. "It suggests that guy will actually be available at whatever point you are comfortable buying when history suggests he's unlikely to be."

 

Where is the actual proof of panarin moving the needle for the team he plays for? Did Columbus improve? You want to throw stats at me fine then let’s look at team records. Did they improve?

 

It's funny that you're using Hall as your benchmark here. Where's the proof of him moving the needle for the team he plays for? Not a single Edmonton team he skated for ever made the post-season (and he had plenty of help to get them there). That Jersey team he carried on his back lost in five in the first round. Yet you rip Panarin for Columbus' simialr fate during his tenure there despite him also leading the team in scoring both seasons in which he actually scored more than he ever did with Chicago, who he won a Calder trophy with.

 

So the rangers will finish around 80 points this year more than likely. So with panarin what’s the expectation?

 

To add about 90 points to the roster. More if Karlsson comes, too.

 

As far as hall goes. You have no idea if he resigns. What I do know is that if the rangers sign panarin they won’t be able to sign hall. What I do know is that if they sign panarin and ek they become far less likely in the future to be able to be involved if a bigger or better name becomes available. What I do know is that signing panarin doesn’t make them a contender next year or the year after that. Nobody even knows if the rangers have a capable goalie in two/three years. There are so many holes and questions with this team. Adding panarin would certainly fill a hole. But at $11 or $12m a year? No thanks not ready for that.

 

Yes, that's exactly my point. Neither do you, which is why it's illogical to hope that he doesn't and makes it to free agency and opts for the Rangers if and when he gets there. Principle of parsimony.

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Why don’t we start with what the core is of this new team. List the guys we are building around.

Zibanejad and skeij, if I give you skeij are the only proven guys I can see

Kreider if they resign him and commit big money and big term

Chytil, Anderson, Howden, Hajek, ada, pionk. All are probably yes but none are sure things.

Buch I don’t know. He’s far from a consistent nhl player

Strome, fast, Namestnikov, nieve, lemieux, Vesey. I don’t think the rangers are committed to any of them as far as a core of the future. Lemieux possibly but a bottom six guy.

 

So what’s the core? Zibenjad and skeij and pray? Some of the young guys will pan out and some won’t. But most will take considerably longer to get their legs under them than most want to admit.

 

I would consider this approach to be swimming in mediocrity. Not good enough to compete, but not bad enough to challenge for a top 3 pick. It also leaves tons of cap space open...just because? I do follow your other points previously about buying when the time is right, but they have the cap to use both now AND later. They have a ton coming off the books in 2 more years if they want to buy more, which also really fits your timeline of buying maybe a few years down the road. It doesn't seem to me that spending this offseason inhibits that or inhibits the evaluation of the team in the manner you have described here.

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I’m not advocating for hall I’m simply pointing out that he maybe available next summer. Tavares was there last summer. Doesn’t seem as rare as you say.

 

Why does it bother so many that I’m preaching patience. We all know (maybe we don’t and that’s the problem) how well buying free agents has worked out for this franchise. A parade every hundred years surely proves the point of having to strike when the next toy is there. Certainly this summer is the end of franchise players ever being available.

 

I guess the bigger question is what if he doesn’t sign here? It’s obvious here that there could be no possible way to move forward. For if there was then maybe I’d have a point.

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I’m not advocating for hall I’m simply pointing out that he maybe available next summer. Tavares was there last summer. Doesn’t seem as rare as you say.

 

Yes, Tavares was there last year. Who preceeded him? Shattenkirk and... Karl Alzner (2017). Kyle Okposo and David Backes (2016). Mike Green and... Antoine Vermette (2015). Paul Stastny and... Ryan Miller? (2014). How far back you want me to go?

 

But by all means, prove me wrong. Show me the rich history of free agents year-over-year that come anywhere close to Panarin.

 

Why does it bother so many that I’m preaching patience. We all know (maybe we don’t and that’s the problem) how well buying free agents has worked out for this franchise. A parade every hundred years surely proves the point of having to strike when the next toy is there. Certainly this summer is the end of franchise players ever being available.

 

It doesn't bother me that you want to be patient. It bothers me that you're attempting to justify that doctrine by ripping a superstar player by suggesting he isn't one, and appealing to some kind of "wait for the next one," philosophy that is completely at odds with the historical precedent that suggests he may never be there.

 

I guess the bigger question is what if he doesn’t sign here? It’s obvious here that there could be no possible way to move forward. For if there was then maybe I’d have a point.

 

Then they keep going. Keep drafting. Maybe look at a trade or two. There are plenty of ancillary routes to take.

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Why does it bother so many that I’m preaching patience. We all know (maybe we don’t and that’s the problem) how well buying free agents has worked out for this franchise. A parade every hundred years surely proves the point of having to strike when the next toy is there. Certainly this summer is the end of franchise players ever being available.

 

I don't think anyone is bothered by preaching patience, but being patient requires a good plan. I don't think anyone wants to watch a mediocre pile of slop without getting in a position to have a high pick. I have no problem being patient as long as they do it right. That requires ripping the team down to the studs. They are like 75% there, but I question their desire to do it the rest of the way and make it a worthwhile rebuild - and making all these playoff misses truly worth it. If they don't want to dismantle this team more, then I want them to be active on the market, and I'd rather attempt to challenge for the playoffs in the meantime than leave cap space open for 2-3 years just because I'm afraid of a contract not working out.

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Why is it pie in the sky? Why is it that this fan base sees the need to have to be in on every single guy that does become available. At the very least why can’t they even leave room for a different idea!

 

Where is the actual proof of panarin moving the needle for the team he plays for? Did Columbus improve? You want to throw stats at me fine then let’s look at team records. Did they improve? So the rangers will finish around 80 points this year more than likely. So with panarin what’s the expectation?

 

As far as hall goes. You have no idea if he resigns. What I do know is that if the rangers sign panarin they won’t be able to sign hall. What I do know is that if they sign panarin and ek they become far less likely in the future to be able to be involved if a bigger or better name becomes available. What I do know is that signing panarin doesn’t make them a contender next year or the year after that. Nobody even knows if the rangers have a capable goalie in two/three years. There are so many holes and questions with this team. Adding panarin would certainly fill a hole. But at $11 or $12m a year? No thanks not ready for that.

 

I really don't get why you are so high on Hall but shit on Panarin. 3 out of Panarin's 4 years he's outscored Hall. Last year Hall put it all together. This year he's going to miss 50 games. You also say that EK is an injury risk (which I agree with) but you don't feel the same with Hall?

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I’m not implying to wait for the next one. I’m saying the rangers are not in a spot to invest in long term massive contracts that could come back to bite them in the ass at the exact point this team is finally turning the corner. It all could work out great you maybe right. But it can all go to shit to with the contract. My point is that taking that risk makes sense when you’re competing for a cup not when you’re trying to figure out who the fuck is your core two three years from now.

 

You advocated for another who wanted to be here. Thank god shattenkirk only got four years. I get it’s different with panarin. He’s 27 or 28 now but in khl years he’s really 22. Nobody knows how he’s going to age.

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I really don't get why you are so high on Hall but shit on Panarin. 3 out of Panarin's 4 years he's outscored Hall. Last year Hall put it all together. This year he's going to miss 50 games. You also say that EK is an injury risk (which I agree with) but you don't feel the same with Hall?

 

 

I can give a shit about hall. Can we see next season first? I’m not shitting on panarin he’s a fine player. Nobody wants to discuss the obvious because you can’t. Did Columbus get better? By actual record? Franchise players are rare that’s for sure. I just don’t view him as one. Really how many wings are?

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For the record, I think this is probably a WC playoff team if they were to add Panarin and Karlsson...with the chance to seriously compete within 2-3 years as the youth in the pipeline develops.

 

 

Ok so you see a 15-18 point improvement. Fair enough I disagree. What if they add only one of them?

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Ok so you see a 15-18 point improvement. Fair enough I disagree. What if they add only one of them?

 

Next year if they add just Panarin probably 8 points or so. Probably a 90 point team. That's added to the current team, not considering any progression from the young guys. With a bit of luck, some good steps forward for some of the young guys, who knows what could happen from there. Realistically I wouldn't expect to see a better playoff push until the year after.

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