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Thread: McKenzie: "Rangers want to get better in a hurry,"

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    7-8 years max money, with a no move clause. Sounds exactly like Rangers' management style.

    How many buyouts/dead money have we dealt with in the past five years?

    You can't rebuild and take on Panarin. It's the wrong timing for the Rangers. Rangers still have the Shattenkirk, Lundqvist, and Staal contracts for the next three years.

    https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/rangers

    Management should be looking to establish a 3-5 year window like 1994-1997 or 2011-2015 where we are serious competitors for the Cup. 2021-2022 or 2022-23 is the earliest we could start a 3-5 year window. Build a young core of talented players.... and in 3-6 years you can add the last veteran piece or two to the mix to solidify a Cup run.
    I'm not advocating signing Panarin, however a free agent like this comes along almost never so it really has little to do with the Rangers perceived window and his free agency coinciding. You almost can't pass him up because you'll never draft a player like him.

    I suppose you can RFA someone or find a guy like him the way the Hawks did but those are all "maybe". A bird in the hand, ya know?

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    Let's not overthink this. Panarin is a proven world-class player. He can re-envigorate the entire franchise and draw attention and pressure from Kravtsov, Chytil etc.

    Cap space? Next year, the Rangers have more than 20 million worth of cap space. From 2020, that figure is 40 million. There are literally no cap issues to worry about.

    The 2020 draft? Well, it's not like Panarin is going to make the Rangers a contender on his own. This year, Ottawa has pulled a very heavy tankjob with a guy like Mark Stone on their roster. And who knows whether that 4th overall draft pick is going to turn into Panarin anyway? That's not a given unless you are really lucky in the lottery and go 1st/2nd overall. Panarin is as close to a given as they come.

    Term? Panarin has only played around 300 NHL matches and has shown no injury concerns. There is no reason why he shouldn't still be world-class in 6 or 7 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    7-8 years max money, with a no move clause. Sounds exactly like Rangers' management style.

    How many buyouts/dead money have we dealt with in the past five years?

    You can't rebuild and take on Panarin. It's the wrong timing for the Rangers. Rangers still have the Shattenkirk, Lundqvist, and Staal contracts for the next three years.

    https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/rangers

    Management should be looking to establish a 3-5 year window like 1994-1997 or 2011-2015 where we are serious competitors for the Cup. 2021-2022 or 2022-23 is the earliest we could start a 3-5 year window. Build a young core of talented players.... and in 3-6 years you can add the last veteran piece or two to the mix to solidify a Cup run.
    This season is basically over. We have those guys for two more seasons. All of their contracts expire in after the 20-21 season.

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    Richards and Shattenkirk were no brainer signings too. Shattenkirk even gave a discount. Almost immediately those signings were realized to be a problem. Panarain at $11m a year has a very real possibility of being a problem. There is ZERO good enough reasons to potentially hamstring your team with a contract like that when your are in the infancy of a rebuild. The only reason is on the marketing side which has nothing to do with building a cup contender. I understand the other side of this argument. It is hard to believe that Im in the minority here with the rangers history going this route. A history that has proven time and again that there are no sure things but with a cap on top to boot.

    I guess what they say is right, you cant rebuild in New York

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    Karlsson and Panarin a no brainer signings that are better hockey players.


    With Richards, the Rangers went to Conference Finals, Conf SF, and Stanley cup finals. He was also 31 when he signed.
    Shattenkirk got hurt in pre-season his first season. And the Shattenkirk contract is compounded with the Smith contract. Get rid of Smith and its "unfortunate that Shatty got hurt", not "That's a bad signing/contract"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Richards and Shattenkirk were no brainer signings too. Shattenkirk even gave a discount. Almost immediately those signings were realized to be a problem. Panarain at $11m a year has a very real possibility of being a problem. There is ZERO good enough reasons to potentially hamstring your team with a contract like that when your are in the infancy of a rebuild. The only reason is on the marketing side which has nothing to do with building a cup contender. I understand the other side of this argument. It is hard to believe that I’m in the minority here with the rangers history going this route. A history that has proven time and again that there are no sure things but with a cap on top to boot.

    I guess what they say is right, “you can’t rebuild in New York”
    I'm not sure what you're getting at here. In the last two years the Rangers have traded McDonaugh, Stepan, Zuccarello, Miller, McQuaid, Hayes, McCloud, Nash, Grabner, Raanta, and Holden all in an effort to get younger/rebuild the team. There still might be more moves coming but at some point you have to turn it around and start trying to advance in the other direction. Did they tear it down to the studs? Close but maybe not totally. Who knows if thats necessary? Only time can tell but from my perspective they have certainly made an effort at rebuilding this team. I'm not sure how signing a star player for star player money changes that.

    I'd love for the core of this team to be home-grown stars but look at several of the past champs. They've all had key contributors that they either signed/traded for at some point or another. Washington has Oshie, Pittsburgh has Kessel, Chicago had Hossa...and all of those guys were brought in before their teams were seriously contending for cups. I get that it doesn't necessarily make sense to pay a guy like Panarin next year when the Rangers still don't appear to be contenders but the following season and the one after? I think he would definitely be hugely beneficial to the success of those teams. And that's not even taken into account the other stuff that he would be bringing that could help our young players move in the right direction next season.
    Last edited by Kevin; 03-13-2019 at 10:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    I'm not sure what you're getting at here. In the last two years the Rangers have traded McDonaugh, Stepan, Zuccarello, Miller, McQuaid, Hayes, McCloud, Nash, Grabner, Raanta, and Holden all in an effort to get younger/rebuild the team. There still might be more moves coming but at some point you have to turn it around and start trying to advance in the other direction. Did they tear it down to the studs? Close but maybe not totally. Who knows if thats necessary? Only time can tell but from my perspective they have certainly made an effort at rebuilding this team. I'm not sure how signing a star player for star player money changes that.

    I'd love for the core of this team to be home-grown stars but look at several of the past champs. They've all had key contributors that they either signed/traded for at some point or another. Washington has Oshie, Pittsburgh has Kessel, Chicago had Hossa...and all of those guys were brought in before their teams were seriously contending for cups. I get that it doesn't necessarily make sense to pay a guy like Panarin next year when the Rangers still don't appear to be contenders but the following season and the one after? I think he would definitely be hugely beneficial to the success of those teams. And that's not even taken into account the other stuff that he would be bringing that could help our young players move in the right direction next season.
    Agree with most of this philosophically, but Kessel/Hossa/Oshie were more like final pieces of the puzzle. Ultimately, the question is will Panarin still be good when the Rangers are good?

    Regarding rebuilding, we have cap space so IMO there's no difference between drafting a 80 point player in R1 and buying him at 27. It just speeds things up. If the defense was better, it would be a no brainer.

    With Panarin, Kravtsov, Chytil and whatever they get this year...The year after next the forwards should be solid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    It's not though: https://www.tsn.ca/statistically-spe...lues-1.1119528



    There's a lot of variance and in some drafts you have a greater chance of getting lucky in that range, but generally speaking you need at least 1 top 3 pick to show for it if you're going to miss the playoffs for a while.
    There's an interesting bit of psychology here - namely why it is that picks 10, 25, 29, and 31 seem to be markedly shittier than the picks around it. 31 I sort of get - that pick over the last 20 years or so has been a pick where the selecting team has around 18 hours on the clock to overthink day 1 and panic pick, but the rest of them strike me as really weird anomalies.
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    The kid wants to play here. It has been in the media; why wouldn't he want to be the franchise player in New York. We are searching for one in the draft and chances are....it won't happen. That's not being negative, that is simply going off of odds and stats.

    Are we going to tank again next year? For what? We have torn this bitch down and starting next season, we should be building her back up. Starting with Panarin and utilizing our draft pieces to build a team and contender. We have th minimal veteran presence from a few weathered gentlemen whom have made it in New York. Follow their lead and by 2021-2022, we could make a run for something again and have a pretty wide open window. Toronto has how many on ridiculous contracts? We will have 1 remaining after a couple of years in Panarin. Make it happen, it kicks start this process in a good way.

    Next issue....Defense....No to EK please. Love the guy but it had all the writing on the wall to be a typical NY signing of a declining player and then being pissed when he doesnt produce as expected. We have a couple of years to figure this one out.

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    How is Karlsson a declining player? Playing 25 minutes a night and right at his career ppg.

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    I think you have to try to sign Panarin.
    If you get Panarin, I think you have to think about signing Karlsson.

    Just Karlsson... I'm iffy.

    If neither, I'd rather not spend on random UFAs or Duchene or anything like that. I think at that point you might explore trading Kreider, and possibly tank again next season. I mean, this team, as is, aint doing shit without some change, and if you are not adding 2 high quality players through free agency, then you stick to "developing"
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    If Panarin wants to play here for whatever is the market for his services, you have to sign him. Enough tearing down. Time to move in the other direction. As for Karlsson, I worry about injuries, but the same has to apply to him as well. (I've never heard anything indicating that Karlsson wants to play here). Panarin has fewer miles on him. Should last longer than Karlsson, but golly, when you look back at the playoffs two years ago, an injured Karlsson had more impact than any player in the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I think you have to try to sign Panarin.
    If you get Panarin, I think you have to think about signing Karlsson.

    Just Karlsson... I'm iffy.

    If neither, I'd rather not spend on random UFAs or Duchene or anything like that. I think at that point you might explore trading Kreider, and possibly tank again next season. I mean, this team, as is, aint doing shit without some change, and if you are not adding 2 high quality players through free agency, then you stick to "developing"
    I agree with this approach. Exactly my thinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sod16 View Post
    If Panarin wants to play here for whatever is the market for his services, you have to sign him. Enough tearing down. Time to move in the other direction. As for Karlsson, I worry about injuries, but the same has to apply to him as well. (I've never heard anything indicating that Karlsson wants to play here). Panarin has fewer miles on him. Should last longer than Karlsson, but golly, when you look back at the playoffs two years ago, an injured Karlsson had more impact than any player in the league.
    everyone wants to play in NY. Everyone would love to be a part of NY winning.
    Plus, the Frolunda ties, and the man love.





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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I think you have to try to sign Panarin.
    If you get Panarin, I think you have to think about signing Karlsson.


    Just Karlsson... I'm iffy.

    If neither, I'd rather not spend on random UFAs or Duchene or anything like that. I think at that point you might explore trading Kreider, and possibly tank again next season. I mean, this team, as is, aint doing shit without some change, and if you are not adding 2 high quality players through free agency, then you stick to "developing"
    This.

    The main issue all year has been D. Replacing Pionk with Karlsson is already a huge improvement. Hajek and Rykov should be improvements over Smith, McQuaid, Cleasson, (and probably Staal at least mobility wise).

    I think adding Paranin and Karlsson next year with those two other young d-men makes this a playoff team in the metro next year. Could even get an added bonus from our first rounder this summer depending on where it falls. Then in the 2nd or at worst 3rd year of the Panarin and Karlsson contract's Miller, Lundkvist, and the last 2019 first rounders should be pushing for spots. In year 3 Panarin is 30 and Karlsson is 31. That timing is fine. As they hit the back end of their contracts Chytil, Kravtsov, Miller, Lundqvist, and the 2019 first round picks should be taking over the bulk of the production anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    everyone wants to play in NY. Everyone would love to be a part of NY winning.
    Plus, the Frolunda ties, and the man love.
    Also...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Agree with most of this philosophically, but Kessel/Hossa/Oshie were more like final pieces of the puzzle. Ultimately, the question is will Panarin still be good when the Rangers are good?

    Regarding rebuilding, we have cap space so IMO there's no difference between drafting a 80 point player in R1 and buying him at 27. It just speeds things up. If the defense was better, it would be a no brainer.

    With Panarin, Kravtsov, Chytil and whatever they get this year...The year after next the forwards should be solid.
    Agreed. we did go this route with MSL and Staal with lesser results.

    I'm 100 pct with you on defense as well. I really think those contracts are the albatross to the quicker turnaround we all want.
    Acqua in bocca

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Not necessarily on either. What does kreider want contract wise? What does the situation look like come deadline next year. Zibanejad is under contract at a steal so not sure where he comes into question. To me Zibanejad is a core piece going forward. That can change over time but he seems like a great place to start building. To be honest Im not sure on kreider.
    Panarin is only a year and a half older than Zib, has 168 less games of wear and tear on him, and doesn't have the injury history. Having the pair of them as a 1-2 punch at a combined $16M for the next 3 years is a no brainer and a great place to start building.

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    I agree. I see Panarin as being like Datsyuk in terms of lasting a long time. The only thing about Panarin is that he seems to take some nights off. He was breathtaking when Columbus got the jump on Washington last year, but then wasn't a big factor. I've definitely seen games when he was pretty ordinary. Now Panarin is at a totally different level, but can you imagine how excited you would be by Vesey or Buchnevich if you happened to just catch a couple of their "on" games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sod16 View Post
    I agree. I see Panarin as being like Datsyuk in terms of lasting a long time. The only thing about Panarin is that he seems to take some nights off. He was breathtaking when Columbus got the jump on Washington last year, but then wasn't a big factor. I've definitely seen games when he was pretty ordinary. Now Panarin is at a totally different level, but can you imagine how excited you would be by Vesey or Buchnevich if you happened to just catch a couple of their "on" games.
    You could see the impact Panarin would have on Vesey and Buchnevich when they're all at their top level of play. It looks like Panarin is making his case for us to sign him and damn, he could be the player we need.

    And what if we sign Karlsson in order to build a winning team in NY?
    Last edited by rangers02; 03-13-2019 at 03:07 PM.
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