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McKenzie: "Rangers want to get better in a hurry,"


Phil

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Yes they were up and coming. None of the guys you mention on the ranger side of prospects have done squat in the nhl. The other guys have had careers yet that doesn?t take away of what they were thought to be at the time. Zibanejad is the only proven. Which is the entire point. You guys are looking to spend like your contending and most of the core guys you want to count on can?t legally drink and have had zero nhl success. The

 

Hey maybe Columbus though really is the bar for all contending teams.

Coyle and Granlund were 20 and never played a game before Parise and Suter signed. Neiderreiter was traded for a year later and at 21 had 3 points in 64 career games.

 

I want to count on Karlsson, Panarin, and Zibanejad while all our first round picks learn from them.

 

If Chytil, Kravtsov, and Kakko need big money deals coming off their ELC's it'll mean the Rangers are contending with 5 ppg players and a Norris finalist. If the kids dont get there the cap won't be an issue. They can bridge them.

 

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Minnesota at the time of signing sited and parise were an up and coming team. If anything they were further along then the rangers are now. But again which team won the cup buying their main pieces?

How many times have the rangers been burned in free agency? What do they say about not learning from your mistakes?

 

Rangerstown. Where the only way to travel is the short yellow bus.

But you want to sign Dzingle.

 

You're arguing to argue. Again, by your logic no team should ever sign a UFA because maybe it won't work out.

 

BTW, I'm not buying the main pieces. The main pieces are Kravtsov, Chytil, the #2 pick, Miller, etc. I'm buying the final pieces, they just happen to be for sale now.

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They won?t be final pieces anymore when we need them to be. And at that point their contacts will tough to swallow. Let?s develop our own young studs instead
Why does it have to be instead? Our studs can't develop of we have Panarin?

 

And who says they won't be final pieces in 3 years?

 

Again ... They're not old. Especially Panarin.

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No issue with buying 1 big piece now. They are available now, and you never know what the next FA class will actually look like till you get there. Whether or not they have to do it to build a contender, they?re still the Rangers and it?s still NY, so they?re going to swim in those waters. That?s always going to be a club in their bag, even if they?ve shifted to a strategy of building primarily through the draft.

 

But two huge contracts on FA from outside the organization? At a point where so many guys who are viewed as future key pieces have yet to even reach the NHL yet? Maybe not the time to open the checkbook quite that far and stay conservative in their spending.

 

And do they honestly want to dump say, $23 million a year and over $150 million in total in the lap of 2 players this summer when they?ve heavily adopted a home grown approach? I don?t know.

 

Definitely should spend money this summer. They have their coach and a system. They?ve filled the organization with prospects and more are coming in June. So it?s time to start bringing in some vets that are part of a longer term plan for sure. I just don?t know that they should spend so many bullets in one shootout.

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No issue with buying 1 big piece now. Whether or not they have to do it to build a contender, they’re still the Rangers and it’s still NY, so they’re going to swim in those waters. That’s always going to be a club in their bag, even if they’ve shifted to a strategy of building primarily through the draft.

 

But two huge contracts on FA from outside the organization? At a point where so many guys who are viewed as future key pieces have yet to even reach the NHL yet? Maybe not the time to open the checkbook quite that far and stay conservative in their spending.

 

It's exactly when to open the checkbook and spend. Those guys who've yet to reach the NHL will be on entry-level deals worth pennies (relative to Karlsson and Panarin). You strike while the iron is hot, then worry about making room if and when they command new deals worth significant amounts.

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It's exactly when to open the checkbook and spend. Those guys who've yet to reach the NHL will be on entry-level deals worth pennies (relative to Karlsson and Panarin). You strike while the iron is hot, then worry about making room if and when they command new deals worth significant amounts.

 

Sure.

 

But it doesn’t have to be on both though.

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No, it doesn't have to be. But I'm not against it at all. I think Panarin is as close to a must as possible. I can easily be swayed on Karlsson, too, but if it has to be just one, it's Panarin all day long.
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No, it doesn't have to be. But I'm not against it at all. I think Panarin is as close to a must as possible. I can easily be swayed on Karlsson, too, but if it has to be just one, it's Panarin all day long.
This. And only because we're getting Hughes or Kakko.
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I'd have done it even without them, but with one of them, I think it's even more critical to give this rebuild a shot in the arm. I forget who said it here, but I also agree that as bad as their defense is, dramatically improving the forwards will dramatically improve the team overall. Similar to how you watch other teams with relatively weak defensive groups — Toronto and Pittsburgh come to mind — still succeed at a high level.
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I'd have done it even without them, but with one of them, I think it's even more critical to give this rebuild a shot in the arm. I forget who said it here, but I also agree that as bad as their defense is, dramatically improving the forwards will dramatically improve the team overall. Similar to how you watch other teams with relatively weak defensive groups ? Toronto and Pittsburgh come to mind ? still succeed at a high level.
Of course the defense looks shitty when the other team has the puck almost the entire game. they always look like they're chasing, and the ones with offense I taking too many chances. When they play more of a possession game you might see the defense legitimize a little bit.
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Of course the defense looks shitty when the other team has the puck almost the entire game. they always look like they're chasing, and the ones with offense I taking too many chances. When they play more of a possession game you might see the defense legitimize a little bit.

 

Agreed.

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It's awful, but it's designed to play offense, so if you dramatically improve the offensive talent of the forwards (Panarin, Kakko, Kravstov), you should see a better result in most games.

 

Pionk and Shattenkirk are woefully deficient without the puck, but if you give them someone with Panarin's ability to finish rather than, you know, Jimmy Vesey, don't be surprised when things improve relatively quickly.

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I am against signing him,I do t want to sign a player to a six year big contract for the great years he had with other club,when his play will diminish during the contract here with the rangers ,and you know in a couple of years you will wish the rangers never signed him
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No, it doesn't have to be. But I'm not against it at all. I think Panarin is as close to a must as possible. I can easily be swayed on Karlsson, too, but if it has to be just one, it's Panarin all day long.

 

All for Panarin. Not so much on Karlsson. Just have a bad feeling on him, for the aforementioned reasons of being 29, contract carrying him to 36, wanting massive dollars, concerns of how he will age and how quickly/severely he might, and the Achilles injury. Put that in the hopper with the Rangers history and piss poor track record with FA’s at that age (yes I know they’re all different but the thought is still there and should be), and you have legitimate reasons to be concerned and reluctant.

 

I think Karlsson would do very well for 3-4 seasons. Beyond that I’m concerned. And I think on a deal the size he will command, you need at least 5 seasons of elite play and production and at least 1 Cup to say you got your money’s worth.

Just skeptical they get there with him. Feel much safer on Panarin

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I am against signing him,I do t want to sign a player to a six year big contract for the great years he had with other club,when his play will diminish during the contract here with the rangers ,and you know in a couple of years you will wish the rangers never signed him

 

Except you don't know that. None of us do. He could very well have a Datsyuk-like "decline" to his career where even into his mid-to-late thirties, he's one of the game's best wingers.

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All for Panarin. Not so much on Karlsson. Just have a bad feeling on him, for the aforementioned reasons of being 29, contract carrying him to 36, wanting massive dollars, concerns of how he will age and how quickly/severely he might, and the Achilles injury. Put that in the hopper with the Rangers history and piss poor track record with FA’s at that age (yes I know they’re all different but the thought is still there and should be), and you have legitimate reasons to be concerned and reluctant.

 

I think Karlsson would do very well for 3-4 seasons. Beyond that I’m concerned. And I think on a deal the size he will command, you need at least 5 seasons of elite play and production and at least 1 Cup to say you got your money’s worth.

Just skeptical they get there with him. Feel much safer on Panarin

 

Then what? He becomes a terrible hockey player? I don't see it happening. I agree about the injury concerns, but that's the only reason I'm skeptical.

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Just so I’m clear on what you guys are saying. You are already sold on chytil. Based on what? I see potential but he’s been nowhere close to a consistent player no less an impactful one. Totally acceptable and understandable being he’s 19. However he’s far from a guarantee and he’s probably a couple years away from being if all goes well an impact player on a consistent basis.

 

The 2nd pick and Kravtsov are complete unknowns not in talent but in readiness. They may seemlessly come in next year or they like chytil could take time. It is possible. If it does take time how good is this team even with adding those two ufas? If we are all in agreement that three years is a probable timeframe for contending if things go right. Then why does it seem so far fetched to worry that two guys in their 30’s might regress by that time? Why does anyone believe that they will be the last impact players ever available? Nobody knows that. It’s also not a must to have to sign a big time ufa at some point to win. It’s far more likely to build your team organically and add those guys as rentals when the year is right.

 

As far as dzingel goes, people asked for another option because they just can’t do nothing major. I’d rather not sign him or Hayes either unless four years is ok with them.

 

And Phil I understand you will figure out the cap later if these guys need to get paid three four years from now. However your point in signing these guys is because you believe in the young guys and their trajectory. Well if they do meet expectations there is going to be a problem because these two ufas will be making $24m of the cap and they aren’t signing without a ntc. Which would mean you maybe losing some early 20’splayrs for two guys in their 30’s and on downsides of their careers.

 

Doing this is like putting ourselves in the blackhawks shoes without the cups. They had to pay Toews, Kane, seabrook, and Keith because of their success. Only Kane now isn’t a drag on that franchise. The other three and their cap hit is directly responsible for their fall into the abyss.

 

You guys could be right. I totally admit that. Both guys could play 7 great years. All these prospects could all hit. There is never another good ufa ever. All is possible. Myself I’m just not ready to throw all the chips in the middle right now. This is the rangers we are talking about here. You really think those contracts aren’t going to burn us. If they do you are killing this rebuild in its crib.

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Then what? He becomes a terrible hockey player? I don't see it happening. I agree about the injury concerns, but that's the only reason I'm skeptical.

 

Terrible. No

 

Not worth the monstrous cap hit he will surely carry anymore. Yes.

 

Guys age and skill sets decline.

 

I’m not saying that he couldn’t defy that. Just not as willing to roll the dice on him to the tune of say, 7 years and $85 million dollars as some others.

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Then what? He becomes a terrible hockey player? I don't see it happening. I agree about the injury concerns, but that's the only reason I'm skeptical.

 

 

That should be enough of a reason to say no. You are in the infancy of a rebuild and you admittedly agree to injury concerns to a 29 year old yet have no problem handing him $12m for 7 seasons. That should be gm malpractice. The risk is crippling, like Staal and shattenkirk on steroids. I guess you could always buy him out and have dead cap space for a decade. That wouldn’t be a problem would it?

 

Duncan Keith was a great player too. What happened to him?

 

Bottom line is. If you’re wrong they are fucked. If I’m wrong nothing happens. They just continue to take the positive steps they are taking and hopefully the next time an impact player is available our young core is ready to justify the risk.

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And finally. Next year being in the lottery again would not be a bad place for this team. The 2020 draft is widely considered the best draft since 2003 and maybe the best ever. Another year of development without mortgaging the future would actually make a lot of sense. I know that’s hard to take but it’s the truth. This team should have its eyes on summer of 2020 to make the push you want. And that could all change very easily depending how things unfold but that should be the target.
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And finally. Next year being in the lottery again would not be a bad place for this team. The 2020 draft is widely considered the best draft since 2003 and maybe the best ever. Another year of development without mortgaging the future would actually make a lot of sense. I know that’s hard to take but it’s the truth. This team should have its eyes on summer of 2020 to make the push you want. And that could all change very easily depending how things unfold but that should be the target.

 

I wouldn’t turn my nose up at another year of picking high. Or even another year of multiple 1st rounders.

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You guys could be right. I totally admit that. Both guys could play 7 great years. All these prospects could all hit. There is never another good ufa ever. All is possible. Myself I’m just not ready to throw all the chips in the middle right now. This is the rangers we are talking about here. You really think those contracts aren’t going to burn us. If they do you are killing this rebuild in its crib.

 

Either side can be right. Both paths are entirely legitimate, and I wouldn't blame the Rangers for choosing one path over the other.

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Why does anyone believe that they will be the last impact players ever available? Nobody knows that. It’s also not a must to have to sign a big time ufa at some point to win. It’s far more likely to build your team organically and add those guys as rentals when the year is right.

 

Well you can look at future free agents on Capfriendly. There are only a handful over the next 4 or 5 years (Hall? Gaudreau? Forsberg? Mackinnon?), and the chances of any of them hitting the market are slim to none. All would be almost 30 as well by the time they are even up. I think Panarin at 31-32 will still be better than what you will find available on the open UFA market, even considering potential regression. Karlsson I am less sure about.

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