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Thread: McKenzie: "Rangers want to get better in a hurry,"

  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Well we will have to see if Henrik is still capable of being an NHL goalie in 2 more years, but if he is there should be no problem keeping him around as a veteran backup. How he treated Georgiev this season makes me think he would be fine on a low dollar backup role, especially if the team is on the upswing and a contender.
    Hank’s presence on the roster after 20-21 is heavily dependent upon Georgiev and Shestyorkin and how those two develop and play, assuming neither of them is traded or off the roster somehow in the next couple of seasons. If he still has something left to his game, I could see him sticking around and transitioning to a backup role at less money.

    But that may not be available to him.

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    Not unless he's going to play for 900k

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    Not unless he's going to play for 900k
    Yeah
    The money and an available roster spot could be obstacles

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    Quote Originally Posted by RangersIn7 View Post
    Hank’s presence on the roster after 20-21 is heavily dependent upon Georgiev and Shestyorkin and how those two develop and play, assuming neither of them is traded or off the roster somehow in the next couple of seasons. If he still has something left to his game, I could see him sticking around and transitioning to a backup role at less money.

    But that may not be available to him.
    Yup! Agreed. I would selfishly like to see him hang around an extra year or two as a backup if we are good by then, to give him one last shot at a Cup. But it shouldn't be the driving force behind having him here. If the Rangers still have Georgiev and Shestyorkin, it's likely they both pass up Lundqvist in performance after 2 more years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    You're going to be paying the piper at some point with that guy, plus I bet they do something crazy dumb like go year to year with Hank until age 40 if they bring Karlsson in.

    It just smells like a 90's Ranger move.
    With any contract, I look at the first 5 years. I think Karlsson will still be a top offensive dman in 5 seasons. Extra seasons bring the cap hit down

    Not going to stumble upon a 2019 Karlsson by accident.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    This is why I'm warming up to the idea. He's an elite talent. Those other guys weren't close to elite.

    There are plenty of examples of defensemen playing at a very high level into their mid 30s. One of them is Karlsson's teammate by the way (Burns, who just turned 34 and had the best year of his career). Dan Boyle was very good well into his 30s. Of course, the Rangers got him too late at 38 lol. Brian Leetch was very good well into his 30s. Karlsson is in the company with these guys, not bums like Wade Redden.

    If he's healthy, I wouldn't be concerned. He has been increasingly injury prone though, and that's the part that concerns me.
    The Sharks still have the inside track on keeping Karlsson. They can offer him 8 years and thus the most total dollars. Even with Pavelski and Meier as UFA and RFA respectively needing new contracts, they should have the cap space. They probably don’t bring Nyquist back, and if Thornton wants to continue playing and stay in San Jose, he can do another 1 year deal and take less money. He loves it there and it would not be any surprise if he did so.

    Obviously every player is different, but most guys absolutely love it in that area. It’s an extremely desirable place to live, work, and raise a family, especially if you’re rich. So many guys over the years have fallen in love with that place. And many guys have taken discounts to stay or go there.
    And there’s like next to no pressure out there. It’s not like an original 6 market or a Canadian market, or even a bigger US market. They’ve had great teams out there for years, been to only 1 SC finals and no Cup. And it’s basically just whatever. Media and fan scrutiny on them is very minimal. That has its appeal too.

    Obviously Karlsson supposedly really likes NY too, so it’s still very much possible he has high interest in the Rangers. But I still think SJ has best shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Nobody ever thinks itís a mistake until they sign the player and then realize that they still need more and the player they signed is being paid for what they did in the past instead of what their future is going to be.
    There is literally nothing to suggest youíll be paying for what he did in the past though.
    Heís been outstanding this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    There is literally nothing to suggest you’ll be paying for what he did in the past though.
    He’s been outstanding this year.
    This year is the past year. Key word, past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RangersIn7 View Post
    The Sharks still have the inside track on keeping Karlsson. They can offer him 8 years and thus the most total dollars. Even with Pavelski and Meier as UFA and RFA respectively needing new contracts, they should have the cap space. They probably don’t bring Nyquist back, and if Thornton wants to continue playing and stay in San Jose, he can do another 1 year deal and take less money. He loves it there and it would not be any surprise if he did so.

    Obviously every player is different, but most guys absolutely love it in that area. It’s an extremely desirable place to live, work, and raise a family, especially if you’re rich. So many guys over the years have fallen in love with that place. And many guys have taken discounts to stay or go there.
    And there’s like next to no pressure out there. It’s not like an original 6 market or a Canadian market, or even a bigger US market. They’ve had great teams out there for years, been to only 1 SC finals and no Cup. And it’s basically just whatever. Media and fan scrutiny on them is very minimal. That has its appeal too.

    Obviously Karlsson supposedly really likes NY too, so it’s still very much possible he has high interest in the Rangers. But I still think SJ has best shot.
    I agree. The percentages of him coming here are very low.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    There is literally nothing to suggest you’ll be paying for what he did in the past though.
    He’s been outstanding this year.
    To be fair, you are right. There isn’t anything to suggest that right now.

    But he still scares the shit out of me. Maybe it’s just their history and poor track record in signing high-priced free agents who are at or near 30 and up. Maybe it’s the fact that we see fewer guys nowadays play at very high levels into their early and middle 30’s. Part of it is just my gut telling me that they won’t get their moneys worth after the 3rd or 4th year of his deal. Also I have a feeling that signing him results in a buyout for one of Staal, Smith or Shattenkirk which I don’t want to see this summer because it means 4 years of dead cap space. I can live with 2 years of that. But 4 years of that is damned ugly on your balance sheet. Even if it isn’t prohibitive and you get some cap savings I still don’t like it.

    I guess I just have a bad feeling on him. Justified or not, you can’t say there aren’t fair concerns on handing a guy 7 years and probably $80 million plus at 29. His best weapon is his legs. And legs go when guys age and move into their 30’s generally.
    Last edited by RangersIn7; 04-13-2019 at 03:41 PM.

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    This year is the past year. Key word, past.
    Oh come on.

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    By this logic no one should ever re-sign a player. Everybody should be out of the league after their first contract.

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    Despite objections, Karlsson is still the games elite offensive defenseman. While I’m of the opinion that they’d regret signing him, I’ll also acknowledge his huge upside and that it could very well work out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    By this logic no one should ever re-sign a player. Everybody should be out of the league after their first contract.
    Yup that’s what I’m saying. He’s almost 30. He played 50 games this year. He’s had multiple injuries in his past. Nobody would offer a player $11m for 7 years based on 50 games. He is going to get paid based on his past. Debating his future is what matters. That’s what you are paying for.

    People here are basically asking the rangers to copy the Minnesota Wild model. They want to buyout past stupid signings only to hurry up and sign a new one. Then argue that’s it’s not likely that it will happen again. It’s more rare that it actually works when signing a deal of that magnitude. Also is there a team ever that has won a cup while acquiring their franchise players by ufa? I’m just asking because I can’t think of any

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Yup thatís what Iím saying. Heís almost 30. He played 50 games this year. Heís had multiple injuries in his past. Nobody would offer a player $11m for 7 years based on 50 games. He is going to get paid based on his past. Debating his future is what matters. Thatís what you are paying for.

    People here are basically asking the rangers to copy the Minnesota Wild model. They want to buyout past stupid signings only to hurry up and sign a new one. Then argue thatís itís not likely that it will happen again. Itís more rare that it actually works when signing a deal of that magnitude. Also is there a team ever that has won a cup while acquiring their franchise players by ufa? Iím just asking because I canít think of any
    This is a false equivalency. We're talking about adding Panarin and Karlsson to supplement Chytil, Kravtsov, Kakko/Hughes, Zib and Krieder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Oh come on.
    That was my reaction to that one as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    This is a false equivalency. We're talking about adding Panarin and Karlsson to supplement Chytil, Kravtsov, Kakko/Hughes, Zib and Krieder.
    Minnesota at the time of signing sited and parise were an up and coming team. If anything they were further along then the rangers are now. But again which team won the cup buying their main pieces?
    How many times have the rangers been burned in free agency? What do they say about not learning from your mistakes?

    Rangerstown. Where the only way to travel is the short yellow bus.

  18. #418
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    There are question marks with Karlsson, IMO. Not Panarin.

    Hopefully in 3 years the Rangers are paying star money to Kakko and Kravstov. I think that’s something to consider as well considering we’ve seen what happens when a large portion of your cap is taken up by one or two players.

    To me Panarin or Karlsson makes sense. Not sure about both long term.
    GORTON 2020

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Minnesota at the time of signing sited and parise were an up and coming team. If anything they were further along then the rangers are now. But again which team won the cup buying their main pieces?
    How many times have the rangers been burned in free agency? What do they say about not learning from your mistakes?
    I get the trepidation, but the guys they have been burned by are of the Redden/Gomez/Drury/Richards variety. Those guys are not on the same plane as Panarin/Karlsson. It is far more equivalent to looking at the acquisition of Jagr or to a lesser degree Gaborik, in terms of talent level, and both were successes on broadway.

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    I get the trepidation, but the guys they have been burned by are of the Redden/Gomez/Drury/Richards variety. Those guys are not on the same plane as Panarin/Karlsson. It is far more equivalent to looking at the acquisition of Jagr or to a lesser degree Gaborik, in terms of talent level, and both were successes on broadway.
    It goes past just those guys. Everyone wanted parise too. Thank god he went home. Nobody worries about 4-5 years from now. You should because that should be this squads coming of age time. It will be a shame if they are anchored by contracts that helped at a time when they had no chance. Why risk the future for little chance now? I don’t get it. Why rush into this shit. Another thing. Kakko is great get but he’s still a child. Literally. He’s not the messiah. He’s a proper piece to build around. A proper piece who won’t be in his prime for years. Again. Years. Yes that’s right, years from now. It makes no sense to sign guys to contracts that will be in decline when our core is just entering their primes.

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