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Thread: Rangers Re-Call D Libor Hajek

  1. #61
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    There are still some coaches who want defense and understand that it can turn an expectedly crappy team into a playoff team and division contender. One just moved in across the river, and it explains why he had pretty much zero use for Shattenkirk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Exactly, even the BSB article I think Gravesy is talking about says...



    https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2018...bay-defenseman

    Outsiders were wondering why he wasn't scoring. The coaches were fine with his progress.
    I'm not talking about the coaches. And I'm not talking about his lack of offense. From the same article:

    A common theme within these discussions from both the media and the fanbase is an assumption that Libor Hajek will be a notable part of the backline going forward. That seems premature at best.

    The Athletic caused somewhat of a brouhaha when they left Hajek exposed in their mock expansion draft for Seattle. No doubt, it defies logic that the Rangers would be contenting giving away a 23-year-old NHL-caliber defenseman.

    But that’s putting the cart before the horse.

    We don’t need to regurgitate an entire analysis of last year’s deadline trade with Tampa Bay, but the Rangers were thrilled to share publicly how Hajek was a mandatory inclusion in any trade they were going to make with Tampa Bay. Despite that, I offered a lukewarm analysis of Hajek over the summer. Now, I’m even less confident in his future.
    This, or versions of it, i.e. Hajek is further away than the Rangers thought, the guy they made a central piece of the McD trade so far isn't living up to expectations etc etc has been a consistent theme for much of the season from various sources.
    Fortunately, it appears they were all wrong so happy days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I'm not talking about the coaches. And I'm not talking about his lack of offense. From the same article:



    This, or versions of it, i.e. Hajek is further away than the Rangers thought, the guy they made a central piece of the McD trade so far isn't living up to expectations etc etc has been a consistent theme for much of the season from various sources.
    Fortunately, it appears they were all wrong so happy days.
    Your not talking about the coaches, but the coaches are the only ones that matter and the coaches don't agree that he is far away and not living up to expectations. That's the fan/media narrative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Your not talking about the coaches, but the coaches are the only ones that matter and the coaches don't agree that he is far away and not living up to expectations. That's the fan/media narrative.

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    100% accurate. No offense to the writers on this forum, but I have no idea why Blue Shirt Banter is some sort of gospel. No one here is fuckin Scotty Bowman, but those guys have little to zero hockey background.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Your not talking about the coaches, but the coaches are the only ones that matter and the coaches don't agree that he is far away and not living up to expectations. That's the fan/media narrative.

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    Well, clearly they donít and his play, although a small sample size, suggests they are right.
    I said there has been a narrative that heís further away than anticipated from several sources. I never mentioned the coaches. Iím not really sure where youíre going with this tbh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Another reason to question what's happening in Hartford. All we've heard this year is that Hajek has been struggling, much further away than anticipated etc etc.
    And then he comes up and looks 100% NHL ready against two tough teams. I've been impressed with him tbh. Nothing flashy but he hasn't been advertised as such either. Fluid skater, moves the puck well, seems to have a good head on him.
    This is where I'm going. If you listen to the coaches everything was fine. There should be no reason to question what's happening in Hartford. They have a shitty team. None of the top prospects are there. What do you expect them to do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Well, clearly they don’t and his play, although a small sample size, suggests they are right.
    I said there has been a narrative that he’s further away than anticipated from several sources. I never mentioned the coaches. I’m not really sure where you’re going with this tbh.
    There are no sources. Writers speculating aren't sources, especially when they're writing things that are the opposite of what the organization has said.

    I'm not kidding, at all, when I say that most of the posters on this board have as good a grasp of what's going on in Hartford as any of the Rangers' beat does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    100% accurate. No offense to the writers on this forum, but I have no idea why Blue Shirt Banter is some sort of gospel. No one here is fuckin Scotty Bowman, but those guys have little to zero hockey background.
    It's not, and nobody takes it that way.

    As much as I find Herman annoying though, he does actually watch Hartford. His problem - like a lot of that site - is that he watches to support his narrative. If you go read that article, he's pointing out some of the same things that McCambridge has. The difference is that he's doing the Banter thing of using point production or shot share as the only success criteriaa.

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    The media - and a whole lot of fans on twitter - always seem to want a lever they can pull to show that Gorton is a bad GM. Hajek, as the ostensible linchpin of the McDonough trade, has huge "Gorton sucks" potential if he's not the real deal. There is no story if he simply meets expectations. But again, most of the criticism that I saw hinged on his small point total rather than any comprehensive assessment of overall performance.

    It was the same thing that frustrated me about the debate over re-signing Skjei last summer. It was all about his point totals between 1st and 2nd year rather than overall performance as a defenseman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    It's not, and nobody takes it that way.

    As much as I find Herman annoying though, he does actually watch Hartford. His problem - like a lot of that site - is that he watches to support his narrative. If you go read that article, he's pointing out some of the same things that McCambridge has. The difference is that he's doing the Banter thing of using point production or shot share as the only success criteriaa.
    I agree, it’s not. Some people do regard it in high fashion. I understand what you’re saying, but it doesn’t matter who watches Hartford or pays attention more than others. They can watch all they want, that doesn’t mean they actually know what they’re watching or looking for. My wife will come upstairs and put on Botched, do you want me giving you a fuckin nose job?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodrigueGabriel View Post
    The media - and a whole lot of fans on twitter - always seem to want a lever they can pull to show that Gorton is a bad GM. Hajek, as the ostensible linchpin of the McDonough trade, has huge "Gorton sucks" potential if he's not the real deal. There is no story if he simply meets expectations. But again, most of the criticism that I saw hinged on his small point total rather than any comprehensive assessment of overall performance.

    It was the same thing that frustrated me about the debate over re-signing Skjei last summer. It was all about his point totals between 1st and 2nd year rather than overall performance as a defenseman.
    The media and twitter fans know dick. Keep watching and making you’re own assessments, you’re doing fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    100% accurate. No offense to the writers on this forum, but I have no idea why Blue Shirt Banter is some sort of gospel. No one here is fuckin Scotty Bowman, but those guys have little to zero hockey background.
    This is a strawman. They're writers, the same as those working at the New York Post, or the Toronto Star, or even TSN/Sportsnet. Most are paid to provide commentary, and their opinions are — get this — their own. If you don't like it, don't read it. How is that difficult?

    Also, how is this any different than the same exact process we do here? We share our thoughts in single posts, or sometimes in consolidated, longer-winded threads. Banter, and other blogs, in longer-form blog posts. It's literally the same thing, just through different mediums.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodrigueGabriel View Post
    The media - and a whole lot of fans on twitter - always seem to want a lever they can pull to show that Gorton is a bad GM. Hajek, as the ostensible linchpin of the McDonough trade, has huge "Gorton sucks" potential if he's not the real deal. There is no story if he simply meets expectations. But again, most of the criticism that I saw hinged on his small point total rather than any comprehensive assessment of overall performance.

    It was the same thing that frustrated me about the debate over re-signing Skjei last summer. It was all about his point totals between 1st and 2nd year rather than overall performance as a defenseman.
    "The media," doesn't exist. It's a catch-all term we use to describe an arm of reporters, journalists, statisticians, talking heads, hosts, commentators, and more. It belongs used in the macro, but not in the micro. If Nick Kypreos, for example, says "player X is soft," it's Kypreos saying it, not "the media." We get it right when we treat it like the former, and we get it dead wrong when it's treated as the latter.

    Likewise, Twitter also doesn't exist in this same way. Reading the tweets of one, two, or even two hundred fans who appear to agree about one topic is not an indication that they agree on others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    This is a strawman. They're writers, the same as those working at the New York Post, or the Toronto Star, or even TSN/Sportsnet. Most are paid to provide commentary, and their opinions are — get this — their own. If you don't like it, don't read it. How is that difficult?

    Also, how is this any different than the same exact process we do here? We share our thoughts in single posts, or sometimes in consolidated, longer-winded threads. Banter, and other blogs, in longer-form blog posts. It's literally the same thing, just through different mediums.
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    Premature speculation on both the pro and con sides. Let's see what the kid actually is after ~50 games or so. Until then he's probably neither as good as some think nor as bad. Anybody remember that one rush Pionk made which feels like it's been years. Yeah since then he's been junk more often than not.

    Give the kid time.

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    That's correct. I was speaking of a subset of both. But when it comes to the Rangers, Brooks takes up a big honkin' share of the media.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RodrigueGabriel View Post
    That's correct. I was speaking of a subset of both. But when it comes to the Rangers, Brooks takes up a big honkin' share of the media.

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    This was a response to Phil's response to me. Because Brooks plays such an outsized role, it leaves an overall impression and he seems particularly manipulative when it comes to Gorton. Look at his dance around Kevin Hayes this season. The Rangers need to keep Kevin Hayes. Of course the Rangers will trade Kevin Hayes, it's only logical. The Rangers traded Kevin Hayes, what a blunder. My bigger point is that a story like Hajek's was used as a potential cudgel against Gorton - because of the trade - disproportionately either to the diligence of the assessment or how you would assess another player.

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    Last edited by RodrigueGabriel; 03-04-2019 at 08:33 PM.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodrigueGabriel View Post
    That's correct. I was speaking of a subset of both. But when it comes to the Rangers, Brooks takes up a big honkin' share of the media.

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    Sure, which is an indictment, but I'm not sure on who. Is it on the fanbase as a whole for failing to demand more of their teams' writers, or is it on the local media covering the team for thinking this is all fans want or need? Both?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    This is where I'm going. If you listen to the coaches everything was fine. There should be no reason to question what's happening in Hartford. They have a shitty team. None of the top prospects are there. What do you expect them to do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    This is where I'm going. If you listen to the coaches everything was fine. There should be no reason to question what's happening in Hartford. They have a shitty team. None of the top prospects are there. What do you expect them to do?

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    OK. So if I understand correctly, your angle here is that the only people worth listening to when it comes to the Rangers are the people in the organization. I respectfully disagree with that. They have their own agendas. To be fair, in this case you're correct in that Carp/Brooks/BSB etc had it wrong when it comes to Hajek (small sample size notwithstanding). It's obviously easier to filter out the BS when it comes to the Rangers rather than the Wolfpack, but I think treating whatever comes out of the organization as gospel and disregarding everything else has its own pitfalls.

    As for the Pack, surely we can agree there are major issues down there. But I do agree it's difficult to assess exactly what those are before the talent level is significantly improved.

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