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Thread: What Are They Doing With This Roster?

  1. #1
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    What Are They Doing With This Roster?

    There are 19 games to go in a dead season, so why the hell am I watching Brendan Smith and Connor Brickley getting ice time at forward for this team? Why are we not giving some kids with a shred of hope of being a part of this organization's future a look? It doesn't make any sense and is really just obnoxious. We think a guy like Fogarty, who is an ideal 4th liner is good enough to give him a contract extension, but we'd rather send out Brendan Smith to play on our 4th line. Are you fucking kidding me.

    It's not like Hartford needs any of these guys for their playoff push because they are awful too. Ville Meskanen was signed last offseason with hopes he could take a bottom 6 role and he has by all accounts been an excellent player for Hartford, but old Panthers trash Connor Brickley is getting ice time instead?

    We are in a rebuild and we are supposed to be developing. Why is Lindgren not back? He was actually up before the All Star break and held his own. We'd rather see more of Pionk who seems to be directly responsible for every goal that gets scored against us? Do we need to evaluate Marc Staal for another 19 games to decide what he is? I don't need to see more of Gilmour, but I actually really would like to see what Chris Bigras can do. He seems to have ideal skills to fit today's NHL and everybody who watches the Pack says that he has been by far the best defenseman on that team for two straight seasons now on both ends of the ice. I don't want to watch anymore useless players who have no future here. Quinn was supposed to be a great developmental coach, but wasting potential developmental ice time on dead-end players does not seem so great.
    Last edited by TwoMinutesForNothing; 02-28-2019 at 02:07 AM.

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    I'll preface this by saying I like a lot of what Quinn does and I think he's done better results wise than I expected. And I fully understand he wants to win hockey games, that's his job. But someone should probably place him under orders to change his approach at this point.

    My worry with him is how he deals with skill players who aren't the prototypical "Quinn" types. I mentioned this in another thread, but I was listening to the BSB podcast a while ago and they discussed some of the criticisms that surfaced about Quinn from his time at BU. Basically;

    - Didn't do a whole lot with absolutely stacked rosters
    - Had a massive hard-on for gritty guys
    - Would routinely punish skill players for not being grit guys. He'd bench guys like Greenway and Eichel, even though they were by far the best players on the team, and make them work their way up from the 4th line whilst playing bottom 6 plugs in their place.

    Like I said in the other thread, I don't watch college hockey so fuck knows whether all of that is true or not. But I see some similarities in his work here. I fully agree that guys must earn their ice time, but at the same time I'm a bit worried about Quinn expecting everyone to play a certain style. I don't think you can expect guys like Buchnevich and Chytil etc to play like feisty, snarling inyour face types. And it kind of worries me when thinking about how he'll deal with Kravtsov and other skill players coming through. In short, the idea of sacrificing skill for grit is making me a bit apprehensive.
    I'm all for the focus on accountability and guys being punished for not doing their jobs, but another aspect that worries me is that it appears to one rule for some and one for others. For instance, Pionk and Howden being on the longest leash on the planet whilst guys like De Angelo, Buch and Chytil seem to get it almost immediately. Again, grit and character over skill.

    It's not a huge issue (yet), but I feel it's there. And I think down the stretch of this season there needs to be very good reason not to blood young guys, to sit guys like Chytil and to not play Chytil, Buch etc in top 6 roles.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division Mr.wiskers's Avatar
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    What are we doing with this roster?

    I donít know, maybe it has something to do with the games played eligibility for the expansion draft.

    As per the NHL.com. Keep in mind we are on the 2018-2019 season and this is thru the 2021-2022 season. So the players have 2 seasons to meet or exceed these requirements.

    * One defenseman who is a) under contract in 2021-22 and b) played in at least 40 NHL games the prior season or played in at least 70 NHL games in the prior two seasons.

    * Two forwards who are a) under contract in 2021-22 and b) played at least 40 NHL games the prior season or played in at least 70 NHL games in the prior two seasons.

    * One goalie who is under contract in 2021-22 or will be a restricted free agent at the end of his current contract immediately prior to 2021-22. If a team elects to make a restricted free agent goalie available to meet this requirement, that goalie must have received his qualifying offer prior to the submission of the team's protected list.

    Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk
    Last edited by Mr.wiskers; 02-28-2019 at 06:33 AM.

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    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division Mr.wiskers's Avatar
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    What are we doing with this roster?

    Actually I donít even think it has anything to do with the expansion draft, thatís 3 seasons away and these guys will be anywhere between 27-28 yrs old by that time. Forget it, thatís not it.

    I guess they ALL suck more than the crew we have at the NHL level.

    Sorry canít help you!

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    I think Quinn is trying to establish a culture of accountability and hard-work, regardless of the talent (or lack of talent) on the ice. In the standings, the season is lost... but Quinn is trying to avoid having individuals in the locker room with a loser mentality where it is OK to lose. Every coach has favorites, and Quinn is going to err on the side of gritty guys who work hard, giving those guys more ice time. No issue for me. When we have better quality defensemen and more offensive threats in our top 6 forwards, focus and ice time is going to change.
    "We're all f*cked. It helps to remember that." - George Carlin

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    Why would you subject young, developing players to this shit show?

    It's one game post deadline. I am sure there will be call-ups against non powerhouse teams or teams trying to make the playoffs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Why would you subject young, developing players to this shit show?

    It's one game post deadline. I am sure there will be call-ups against non powerhouse teams or teams trying to make the playoffs.
    Because there is an even bigger shit show in Hartford and because there is literally nothing to lose from letting them have a taste of the big league at this point.
    Why not let a guy like Meskanen have a look if the alternative is playing Brendan Smith on the wing?

    Agree with the second part though. No reason to hit the klaxons after one game.

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    I don't think it's fair to call it a shit show, I mean they're coming off points against the two best teams in the conference and soundly outplayed TB in 2/3 periods last night.

    Thought Zibanejad said it best last night that last year that game would have been 6-1 Tampa.

    However, I do understand the concern in the OP

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    I don’t get the complaint. We just witnessed years of selective accountability. Quinn comes here and with a shit roster has this team playing a very respectful game. Playing far better than what any reasonable person could expect. Last night this team actually outplayed the best teams in the league for 2/3rds of the game. They didn’t do it with individual talent, they did it with system and hard work. Buchnevich who has been an enigma for av as well looks to be engaging and playing far more consistently. Vesey again another young player who’s development was nonexistent under av is showing signs of life. DeAngelo maybe their best defenseman the past 20 games or so. Chytil is 19 years old. He has skipped his development years of playing on junior teams and the ahl. He is learning those lessons here at the nhl level. We should be thankful that there is a coach here dedicated to teaching him the lessons of what it takes to be a complete player. Of course Quinn knows that on talent alone he deserves to play. Quinn is not benching him as punishment or for better team results this year. He’s doing all of it for chytil future and his hopeful spot in this team core. Rebuilding is not just drafting young talent. Developing that talent is just as important. In order to develop anything there has to be a culture established. An accountability and identity that everybody understands. Whether that’s a ten year veteran or a 19 year old kid. Quinn is putting his stamp on what he expects out of every single player on this team, by all reporting he does it in a very transparent and communicated way. I don’t understand the need to see kids who are deemed not ready. The powers in charge are doing everything with future in mind. They are not not playing kids to frustrate fans and to be obnoxious. They are doing the reasonable and responsible thing by doing what’s best for each individuals development.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    I don't think it's fair to call it a shit show, I mean they're coming off points against the two best teams in the conference and soundly outplayed TB in 2/3 periods last night.

    Thought Zibanejad said it best last night that last year that game would have been 6-1 Tampa.

    However, I do understand the concern in the OP
    Our third line would be a great AHL second line. Our D would get walked in my beer league. It's a shitshow. Haha.

    That said... Some folks just live to see "the kids" play.

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    Fogarty turns 26 in April, Bigras is 24. Meskanen is 23 and not productive in the AHL, no reason to give him a shot.

    There is nobody in Hartford, Howden is hurt, and Chytil is in timeout. Gettinger, Ronning and Fontaine gain nothing by playing 8:00 a night and Hajek, Lindgren haven't been good enough to warrant a call up. There's no rush.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    I don’t get the complaint. We just witnessed years of selective accountability. Quinn comes here and with a shit roster has this team playing a very respectful game. Playing far better than what any reasonable person could expect. Last night this team actually outplayed the best teams in the league for 2/3rds of the game. They didn’t do it with individual talent, they did it with system and hard work. Buchnevich who has been an enigma for av as well looks to be engaging and playing far more consistently. Vesey again another young player who’s development was nonexistent under av is showing signs of life. DeAngelo maybe their best defenseman the past 20 games or so. Chytil is 19 years old. He has skipped his development years of playing on junior teams and the ahl. He is learning those lessons here at the nhl level. We should be thankful that there is a coach here dedicated to teaching him the lessons of what it takes to be a complete player. Of course Quinn knows that on talent alone he deserves to play. Quinn is not benching him as punishment or for better team results this year. He’s doing all of it for chytil future and his hopeful spot in this team core. Rebuilding is not just drafting young talent. Developing that talent is just as important. In order to develop anything there has to be a culture established. An accountability and identity that everybody understands. Whether that’s a ten year veteran or a 19 year old kid. Quinn is putting his stamp on what he expects out of every single player on this team, by all reporting he does it in a very transparent and communicated way. I don’t understand the need to see kids who are deemed not ready. The powers in charge are doing everything with future in mind. They are not not playing kids to frustrate fans and to be obnoxious. They are doing the reasonable and responsible thing by doing what’s best for each individuals development.
    Like I said I think he's done well and I think he's done a lot of things right.
    But I'm not sure I buy this isn't another version of selective accountability. Again, Howden absolutely drowning and still playing. Pionk being laughable in his own zone and still seen as a 1st pairing player. De Angelo in street clothes for looking at him funny. Etc.
    I'm not going to pretend I know more about developing players than Quinn, but I absolutely question the wisdom of his approach re Chytil & Buch for instance. I don't have a problem with guys being benched for mailing it in - if that's what they're doing that's absolutely fine and justified. I think everybody has to put the work in, but I think you have to allow for different skill sets in a hockey team. I think playing guys like that on the 4th line is a waste of everyone's time, and the stats back it up. I have a problem with sacrificing talent for grit which I gather he's been criticized for doing in the past.

    To be very clear, I'm not calling for his head or anything near that. It's a small worry that I have.

  13. #13
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    They can't just bring guys up because they only have 4 recalls left for the rest of the season.

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    Well, the season didn't play out as expected (welcome to a rebuild!)
    Ideally, you have a few rookies/2nd year players on the roster to start the season (Chytil, Pionk, Howden), have way through the season you call up a few more guys (Andersson, Lindgren, Letteiri), and then at the deadline you call up a few more (Nieves, Hajek, Crawley, Bigras, Fontaine, etc).

    Our first set of rookies started strong. Pionk was skating, getting icetime, Chytil caught on after a month and was hot for a few weeks, and Howden exceeded all expectations to start the season. The call-ups, not so much. Letteiri started in the NHL, but was quickly sent down. He's gone up and down with no success with the Rangers. Lias, as most will say, is a bust at 20. Regardless, you'd want to see a guy stick in the NHL around mid-season. And none of them did. At the same time, the group that started the season strong in the NHL took 2 steps back. None of the younger group has been strong enough, nor has the support group (Namestnikov, Fast, Strome, Smith, Staal, etc) been strong enough to support more than a few youngsters in the lineup without having them exposed for their lack of experience at this level.
    So, after the sell-off, you'd ideally hope to have 4-6 forwards under 22, and 2-3 dman, as well, to finish out the season. Unfortunately, outside the top line, the team has been consistently putrid, and an unwelcoming environment for young-player growth.



    As we've said all season, you bring in some top line guys, it moves everyone back into place in the lineup. Our 2nd line is a decent (overpaid) 3rd/4th line. The Lemieux-Andersson-Buchnevich/Chytil group is the other 3/4th line. bring in Top 6 guys, and thats a decent lineup, while getting kids experience. Same on D. Move out Pionk for someone that can play those minutes, and let someone develop on the 3rd pairing
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

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    just keep losing and focus on the draft.

    we are still in the mode of trying to add more talent. getting the picks and FA right will be the ultimate barometer if this team turns around.
    Acqua in bocca

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    What kids are there to bring up? The Rangers best prospects are not available to them this season.
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    I expected much more of a shit show this year. This team is building a fabric and identity of it's own while dispelling the last identity from that core group. Not an easy process while in the middle of this roster turnover from the last group and accepting a new coach and system. The best case scenario is signing Panarin and making a hockey trade for a D man to help expedite this process and give this team a new threat. This team doesn't ice a floundering roster and this coach demands expectations of work ethic; buy in or sit out. I think we are on the brink of something good here in as early as the next 1-2 years with proper free agent signings and draft picks. Stay the course and let's keep our patience. It's coming; the fact that we can compete with top level teams and have a budding roster missing a game breaker or two shows we aren't too far away. I trust in Gorts and Quinn because the results we are seeing shows the work is being put in. The fact that we have gotten to OT so many times this year shows the compete level is there; the talent is not. MAKE IT HAPPEN GORTS!!

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    They just called up the only player in Hartford that figures to be part of the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Like I said I think he's done well and I think he's done a lot of things right.
    But I'm not sure I buy this isn't another version of selective accountability. Again, Howden absolutely drowning and still playing. Pionk being laughable in his own zone and still seen as a 1st pairing player. De Angelo in street clothes for looking at him funny. Etc.
    I'm not going to pretend I know more about developing players than Quinn, but I absolutely question the wisdom of his approach re Chytil & Buch for instance. I don't have a problem with guys being benched for mailing it in - if that's what they're doing that's absolutely fine and justified. I think everybody has to put the work in, but I think you have to allow for different skill sets in a hockey team. I think playing guys like that on the 4th line is a waste of everyone's time, and the stats back it up. I have a problem with sacrificing talent for grit which I gather he's been criticized for doing in the past.

    To be very clear, I'm not calling for his head or anything near that. It's a small worry that I have.
    Last time Buch sat was 1/29. Since then 10 points in 14 games. Last time Tony D sat 2/2. Since then playing almost 20 min a might and has 11 assists in 12 games.

    I think Quinn's approach is working.

  20. #20
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    That 14 games has been, by far, the best hockey of his career.

    He's had other spurts of scoring, but the compete level is way, way up.

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