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Thread: MIN F Mikko Koivu Out Remainder of Season with ACL, Meniscus Tear

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    MIN F Mikko Koivu Out Remainder of Season with ACL, Meniscus Tear

    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
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    Yup. Who they got to trade?

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    Not much, unfortunately. I'd have been on Niederreiter before he went for Rask.

    They have Kaprizov and Greenway, but I dunno.


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    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

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    Laine for Hayes, do it
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    Let's Go Rangers!

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    if we can find a way to pry Filip Johansson for Hayes in a trade.....
    A very willful boy. A rather.......naughty boy, if I may be so bold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Not much, unfortunately. I'd have been on Niederreiter before he went for Rask.

    They have Kaprizov and Greenway, but I dunno.


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    Kaprizov, then a huge drop off down to Kunin and Greenway. Kaprizov is signed for a couple more years in the KHL iirc.
    Doesn't really set pulses racing, but I suppose their 1st could be very good with a bit of luck.

    I still think the best deal for the Rangers is in Winnipeg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Kaprizov, then a huge drop off down to Kunin and Greenway. Kaprizov is signed for a couple more years in the KHL iirc.
    Doesn't really set pulses racing, but I suppose their 1st could be very good with a bit of luck.

    I still think the best deal for the Rangers is in Winnipeg.
    I'd sweeten the deal if they could get Kaprizov AND Greenway.

    They need a puck-moving D with Dumba out, throw in Pionk or try to convince them that Shatty retained is a good deal.

    Hayes + Shatty (retained) + 3rd round McQuaid Pick for Kaprizov and Greenway.

    I'm not sure Minny would do that, but I'm about that life.

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    Yeah, because you want to bail on Shattenkirk. I think that'd be pretty short-sighted of them given the lack of upside in the return.

    Part out to different teams instead. There should be a market on Shattenkirk next season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Yeah, because you want to bail on Shattenkirk. I think that'd be pretty short-sighted of them given the lack of upside in the return.

    Part out to different teams instead. There should be a market on Shattenkirk next season.
    I guess that depends what you think of Kaprizov. I think there's a metric shit ton of upside. I also like Greenway's upside a lot, maybe more than others, plus he's a Quinn guy.

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    I like both of them, too. But I like the idea of parting out more. It's incredibly rare that one team has the assets you need in a deal for more than one asset like this.

    Plus, there's the issue of this — why is Minnesota, whose farm is rather barren, scorching their own earth for short-term help by giving up two of the only three real high-level prospects they own?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    I like both of them, too. But I like the idea of parting out more. It's incredibly rare that one team has the assets you need in a deal for more than one asset like this.

    Plus, there's the issue of this — why is Minnesota, whose farm is rather barren, scorching their own earth for short-term help by giving up two of the only three real high-level prospects they own?
    Shattenkirk isn't an asset. There's nothing to part out, because you aren't going to get a potential impact player for him who is anything more than Greenway or Kaprizov.

    To try to win now. I'm not saying they would, but if they're trading for Hayes, it's all they have that I'd be interested in. I think they're a horrible trade partner for NYR unless they want a discounted Shatty (which actually makes sense). But Shatty isn't going to bring a player of either Kaprizov or Greenway's calibre.

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    Shattenkirk is an asset. To any PP

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
    Shattenkirk is an asset. To any PP
    In 2016 yea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    In 2016 yea.
    Nah, now. Especially retained on, as you suggest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Nah, now. Especially retained on, as you suggest.
    He has 4 points on the PP this year and is like 34th in PP minutes among defensemen. The guy offers absolutely nothing. Why trade for Shatty when you can get the same production from Spurgeon? It's not like they'd replace Suter on the top unit.

    There is just no market for Shatty, retained or not, unless he's packaged with a valuable piece like Hayes.

    What would you honestly trade for Shatty at $3m, considering he's signed next year too? It's not like he has any value as a replacement for Pateryn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    He has 4 points on the PP this year and is like 34th in PP minutes among defensemen. The guy offers absolutely nothing. Why trade for Shatty when you can get the same production from Spurgeon? It's not like they'd replace Suter on the top unit.

    There is just no market for Shatty, retained or not, unless he's packaged with a valuable piece like Hayes.

    What would you honestly trade for Shatty at $3m, considering he's signed next year too? It's not like he has any value as a replacement for Pateryn.
    Yeah, because he was bumped off the PP for like half the season in favor of shitty Neal Pionk.

    So weird, that a guy who put up just under 50% of his total career points on the power play, suddenly doesn't look so threatening when he's not on the power play.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
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    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Yeah, because he was bumped off the PP for like half the season in favor of shitty Neal Pionk.

    So weird, that a guy who put up just under 50% of his total career points on the power play, suddenly doesn't look so threatening when he's not on the power play.
    He leads the team in PPTOI by a mile and has done nothing with it. Pionk has 8 more PPP in 25:30 less. Shatty is 23rd among NHL D in PP TOI since Jan 1 and has exactly 2 points to show for it. There is just nothing to suggest that he is a productive PP QB right now.

    And if he's not threatening when he's not on the PP, he has no value, because no contending team has a hole on their PP.

    Way to dodge the question though.

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    Yes, now, because he finally got his role back. If you positioned your argument as "Shattenkirk is losing value," I'd agree. You didn't. You positioned it as "he has zero value," which isn't true. Especially with retention. Given his age, the remaining time left on his deal, and the value of a retaining, a team looking for a third-pairing defenseman who can play on their second PP and give them an insurance policy should their first get hurt or falter could easily show interest at next year's deadline.

    I don't know how to answer your question, by the way. What would I trade for Shattenkirk if I were whom, Minnesota? I wouldn't. I'd have to look more closely at the teams who I think are probably better fits. Colorado and Dallas, off the top of my head, probably make more sense. Colorado next season (better positioned for a run). Dallas this season (playoffs or bust).
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you’re a good loser, you’re a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Yes, now, because he finally got his role back. If you positioned your argument as "Shattenkirk is losing value," I'd agree. You didn't. You positioned it as "he has zero value," which isn't true. Especially with retention. Given his age, the remaining time left on his deal, and the value of a retaining, a team looking for a third-pairing defenseman who can play on their second PP and give them an insurance policy should their first get hurt or falter could easily show interest at next year's deadline.

    I don't know how to answer your question, by the way. What would I trade for Shattenkirk if I were whom, Minnesota? I wouldn't. I'd have to look more closely at the teams who I think are probably better fits. Colorado and Dallas, off the top of my head, probably make more sense. Colorado next season (better positioned for a run). Dallas this season (playoffs or bust).
    He was losing value last year and the beginning of this year. Now it's gone completely.

    Why would Colorado or Dallas want him? They're both in the same boat as Minnesota in that they don't have a hole on their PP. The league - especially anyone who thinks they're contenders - is loaded with puck-moving defensemen who can run a PP. Shatty doesn't fix anything for anyone. If you wouldn't trade for him on Minny, I don't think there's a fit anywhere.
    Last edited by Future; 02-08-2019 at 01:47 PM.

  20. #20
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    I could see Carolina taking a flier if they move Hamilton for a forward.

    It's pretty clear that NY just isn't the place for him. Players rarely succeed when they "go home".

    Classic place of player playing poorly vs poor player.

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