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Thread: The New Political Thread: New Rules; New Attitude

  1. #21
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    Thatís what happens when the country is so divided
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4EverRangerFrank View Post
    I watched State of the Union address and the Democratic response because I want to hear it first hand and not Ďspuní by a talking head.

    So much of what we hear or get to read is for people with ADD. Itís like nobody has the patience to really want to get to the bottom of the story and are satisfied by, or believe in, headlines alone. Thatís a dangerous way to live.
    +1.

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    something that really concerns me about the SOTU. Trump's quote, "If there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation. It just doesn't work that way."

    Take out the "peace" and the "war" since that's just fluff. He is essentially telling congress, if you want bills to be passed and signed into law, you have to stop investigating me.



    http://time.com/5522285/trump-economy-nixon/
    Trump was not the first president to call for the end of the investigations during his State of the Union. In 1974, Nixon told Congress, “I believe the time has come to bring that investigation and the other investigations of this matter to an end. One year of Watergate is enough!”

    Though he said he would cooperate with the Watergate investigation, Nixon argued that the country had other things to worry about that required Washington’s full attention. He resigned from office less than a year later, in August of that year.
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    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...p-took-office/

    "Ultimately, it would probably take both public support and presidential support to reduce the threat of climate change. And, for the last 40 years, those two things haven’t lined up very well. It’s not just that support for increased environmental spending is higher under Republican presidents. It’s also that it’s lower under Democratic ones. And that’s true even for Democratic voters — people arguably primed to care about the environment. Even the Yale and George Mason public opinion polling shows a distinct drop-off in the Americans’ belief in and concern about climate change after Barack Obama was first elected. The numbers mostly remained significantly below 2008 levels until Obama was on his way out of office and the 2016 election was in full swing....Shallow politics and deep-seated psychology seem to be combining to make Americans more concerned about climate change and more interested in solutions like the Green New Deal. But history suggests that the trend will flip again once the people who want to implement that kind of plan get elected.

    “It is terribly ironic, isn’t it,” Johnson said" (Erik Johnson, professor of sociology at Washington State University)
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...p-took-office/

    "Ultimately, it would probably take both public support and presidential support to reduce the threat of climate change. And, for the last 40 years, those two things haven’t lined up very well. It’s not just that support for increased environmental spending is higher under Republican presidents. It’s also that it’s lower under Democratic ones. And that’s true even for Democratic voters — people arguably primed to care about the environment. Even the Yale and George Mason public opinion polling shows a distinct drop-off in the Americans’ belief in and concern about climate change after Barack Obama was first elected. The numbers mostly remained significantly below 2008 levels until Obama was on his way out of office and the 2016 election was in full swing....Shallow politics and deep-seated psychology seem to be combining to make Americans more concerned about climate change and more interested in solutions like the Green New Deal. But history suggests that the trend will flip again once the people who want to implement that kind of plan get elected.

    “It is terribly ironic, isn’t it,” Johnson said" (Erik Johnson, professor of sociology at Washington State University)
    lol...wow. I had no idea. Basically, dems only talk "climate change" but don't do anything about it once in power, where it is actually the repubs who spend money to combat climate change. the Dems in charge are only after the votes and once in office---flip the bird.

    I see similar patterns with dems and abortion. overturning Roe vs Wade is used as a scare tactic by the dems only during the election period. Once the elections are over, no one brings it up again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlairBettsBlocksEverything View Post
    something that really concerns me about the SOTU. Trump's quote, "If there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation. It just doesn't work that way."

    Take out the "peace" and the "war" since that's just fluff. He is essentially telling congress, if you want bills to be passed and signed into law, you have to stop investigating me.



    http://time.com/5522285/trump-economy-nixon/
    nothing new here. Trump being asking to end the investigation ever since it started.
    what worries me now is why Pelosi is so friendly with Trump all of a sudden? applauding him, smiling. at the last SOTU she wouldn't move a muscle. something's up

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
    nothing new here. Trump being asking to end the investigation ever since it started.
    what worries me now is why Pelosi is so friendly with Trump all of a sudden? applauding him, smiling. at the last SOTU she wouldn't move a muscle. something's up
    I think its the general procedure during the SOTU to be applauding

    Asking for it to end is one thing, doing it during the state of the union is another. The article I linked shows Nixon doing the same thing and we know how that turned out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...p-took-office/

    "Ultimately, it would probably take both public support and presidential support to reduce the threat of climate change. And, for the last 40 years, those two things haven’t lined up very well. It’s not just that support for increased environmental spending is higher under Republican presidents. It’s also that it’s lower under Democratic ones. And that’s true even for Democratic voters — people arguably primed to care about the environment. Even the Yale and George Mason public opinion polling shows a distinct drop-off in the Americans’ belief in and concern about climate change after Barack Obama was first elected. The numbers mostly remained significantly below 2008 levels until Obama was on his way out of office and the 2016 election was in full swing....Shallow politics and deep-seated psychology seem to be combining to make Americans more concerned about climate change and more interested in solutions like the Green New Deal. But history suggests that the trend will flip again once the people who want to implement that kind of plan get elected.

    “It is terribly ironic, isn’t it,” Johnson said" (Erik Johnson, professor of sociology at Washington State University)
    It is certainly interesting about the voting trends, but I'd like to see the voting trends of things, but to suggest Dems have done nothing about the environment is just wrong

    Obama raised fuel efficiency standards, Trump stopped that

    Under Obama we had the Paris Agreement, Trump withdrew us from that agreement

    the 2009 Stimulus made billions in investments in clean energy/green tech

    and there was more thats we can go into in more detail if need be, but these examnples alone illustrate the difference in action on the issue.

    Pruitt being atop the EPA is a brutal example of GOP's inaction on climate.

    I'm skeptical of the article suggesting Democrats, when in power, don't actually act on climate change. It's interesting to note the polls they mentioned, but I think that's just electoral politics. People get more concerned about an issue when it's time to vote. Interesting, sure, but something so shocking? I don't think so.
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    From a sociology perspective, I thought the five thirty eight article was interesting. When a critical mass of people are concerned that something is not being addressed, more interest in something being done. Ideally, people would start paying more attention to what is going on in their community and state... and less on the national stage. But the national stage grabs the headlines of the big news outlets. It takes more attention and research to be aware of what is going on locally and make a difference. Those who pay attention to local issues have a disproportionate influence on what goes on in their community.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...p-took-office/
    Ultimately, it would probably take both public support and presidential support to reduce the threat of climate change.
    Interesting study, but this first part stood out.

    Public support - via voting and wallets - will dictate that. The reality is that Americans are generally unwilling to take a slight inconvenience, let alone make a financial committment, to climate change.

    100 companies are responsible for 71% of global emissions, and they're almost exclusively energy and coal. The second Americans choose to invest in green tech that pushes out the use of coal is the second that the legislation would follow. https://www.theguardian.com/sustaina...climate-change

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    Fossil fuel industries are well established, politically connected, and moneyed. Watch a commercial from Exxon Mobil, BP, Chevron, etc and you'll get a warm fuzzy about what good global citizens they are. Its easy to pump gas in your car because of existing infrastructure. Getting easier but still a lot harder to drive a electrical vehicle, and how is that electricity produced? Big corporations investing in green technology make a big difference, but individual citizens can reduce their footprint by conserving water, electricity, walking or biking sometimes, taking the stairs instead of elevator, etc.
    "We're all f*cked. It helps to remember that." - George Carlin

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    Great! How many of u drive an electric? Many options out there

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlairBettsBlocksEverything View Post
    I think its the general procedure during the SOTU to be applauding

    Asking for it to end is one thing, doing it during the state of the union is another. The article I linked shows Nixon doing the same thing and we know how that turned out.
    Did she applaud during his first SOTU? Dont think so. Did you watch it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
    Did she applaud during his first SOTU? Dont think so. Did you watch it?
    I don’t recall exactly what happened in his last SOTU but I think as speaker of the house there’s different “tradition” so to speak.

    Also, and I don’t mean this directed at you, but I love how there are people upset at democrats demeanor during he SOTU when they said nothing about a republican congressman screaming “YOU LIE!” at Obama during his.
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    Any thoughts on AOC's Green New Deal?

  16. #36
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    I haven't had a chance to actually read it yet. I did see it got a mixed bag of reaction (as should be expected) from the usual suspects. I believe it might have been Chris Cizilla of CNN, though, that I thought I recalled seeing heavily criticizing it's ambitious timeline.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    I haven't had a chance to actually read it yet. I did see it got a mixed bag of reaction (as should be expected) from the usual suspects. I believe it might have been Chris Cizilla of CNN, though, that I thought I recalled seeing heavily criticizing it's ambitious timeline.
    It's interesting just seeing the reaction to the different news sources. MSNBC is head over heels for the bill, while Fox News is on full attack mode against her.

    What I do find interesting, is how much is going into propping up/Trying to bring down one freshman congresswoman from NYC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlairBettsBlocksEverything View Post
    It's interesting just seeing the reaction to the different news sources. MSNBC is head over heels for the bill, while Fox News is on full attack mode against her.

    What I do find interesting, is how much is going into propping up/Trying to bring down one freshman congresswoman from NYC.
    This is what intrigues me most about her (not in a good way). She won the democratic nomination in her district with 16k votes. I'm not sure how that qualifies her to all of a sudden be a major focal point of anything, or a "rising star", etc. It is crazy how the media operates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    This is what intrigues me most about her (not in a good way). She won the democratic nomination in her district with 16k votes. I'm not sure how that qualifies her to all of a sudden be a major focal point of anything, or a "rising star", etc. It is crazy how the media operates.
    well, she won an election the same way anyone else would have won an election, which gives her the right to pursue an agenda and work to pass any legislation as any other representative.

    Her predecessor was careless and ignored a growing trend in the Democratic party (and really, in the country as a whole) of being anti-establishment and not accepting the status-quo type of dem. She took advantage of that and ran a great campaign.

    I mean less than a year ago she was working as a bartender and now she's in congress. It's actually quite fascinating to see that one person, with ideas and the drive for it, can oust the party establishment, specifically a Dem who hadn't had an opponent since 2004. In terms of primary turnout, it's tough to compare numbers (as you said, only 16k) when the guy she beat had not had a primary opponent since 2004, and with the result of that election being guaranteed dem (there are plenty of seats across the country where one party is guaranteed a victory) it was all she needed. If in two years her constituents don't like her anymore, they can vote her out.

    Nationally, primary turnout was up significantly across the country though. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...mocratic-side/

    Nearly a fifth (19.6%) of registered voters – about 37 million – cast ballots in House primary elections, according to the analysis of state election results. That may not sound like a lot, but it was a 56% increase over the 23.7 million who voted in 2014’s House primaries; turnout that year was 13.7% of registered voters
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    It is crazy how the media operates.
    She's a "sexy" politician and is bold in her approach, that will always generate clicks/views. There's no real mystery around it.

    The problem is that "sexy" and sensible, for politicians, aren't always found in one person.

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