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Thread: 2018-9 NHL Trade Deadline: Sell 'em All... Again!

  1. #221
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    I see that post a lot and just don't see why it's significant.

    That's not what happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flynn View Post
    If Andersson were picked 21st and and Chytil 7th, we be thrilled with the top pick and be pleased with how the 21st pick was developing in the AHL..
    Iím not sure why this matters at all.

    People are calling for Andersson to be traded already around here. Itís absurd. The list of players that developed over many years of professional experience is 10x longer than the list of people who made an immediate impact. Just look at Kreider and Hayes.
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  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    But he’s producing as much as the “high ceiling” players in the AHL while exhibiting other aspects of his game those players lack
    But he's supposed to be in the NHL now. Not the AHL. Howden getting hurt and Lias not getting the instant call up is alarming. There's a spot for him. They just don't want to give it to him.

    I fully expected this kid to push Hayes out the door, or at least help the team decide to move him sooner. Dude can't even get a role over Nieves (whom I like) or Strome. It's the perfect time to insert him.

    The selling point on drafting him was that he could walk onto an NHL team and contribute.. He hasn't done that. This is year two after being drafted.. Guess the selling point is untrue.

    I'm down for trading him or handing him a third line role with the goal being to slide him into a second line role as soon as they deal Hayes. Let him play and give him some damn line mates. If they don't want to do that. Add him to a package to some sucker ala DeAngelo to the Rangers.

  4. #224
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    Hopefully the rangers stick to the plan that best develops the player that is based on his actual readiness rather than fulfilling the fans need to rush to judgement. He’s 19/20 years old. He can’t even have a beer yet. Surely he has time to develop into more than he is now. Maybe he doesn’t. Regardless he’s not a bust yet and the team does not need to prove otherwise to the ridiculous faction of their fan base.

  5. #225
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    He’s european sonhe can have a beer.
    And he looks so much like a bust from where im sitting.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    But he's supposed to be in the NHL now. Not the AHL. Howden getting hurt and Lias not getting the instant call up is alarming. There's a spot for him. They just don't want to give it to him.

    I fully expected this kid to push Hayes out the door, or at least help the team decide to move him sooner. Dude can't even get a role over Nieves (whom I like) or Strome. It's the perfect time to insert him.

    The selling point on drafting him was that he could walk onto an NHL team and contribute.. He hasn't done that. This is year two after being drafted.. Guess the selling point is untrue.

    I'm down for trading him or handing him a third line role with the goal being to slide him into a second line role as soon as they deal Hayes. Let him play and give him some damn line mates. If they don't want to do that. Add him to a package to some sucker ala DeAngelo to the Rangers.
    I disagree to an extent on this take.
    The "NHL ready" thing is a bit of a buzzword, and I suppose it depends on your definition of what that actually means. But there is no doubt in my mind that Andersson could have played on the 4th line this year and he would have been fine. Certainly no worse than anyone else that has been centering that line. I mean, you can argue that they overcooked the NHL ready bit at the time of drafting him and I would argue that it makes little sense to spout shit like that as all you really get out of it is adding pressure on both the kid and the organization to have him deliver straight off the bat.

    In any case, in camp, a decision was made that he would be better off playing as a 1st line C in Hartford to work on his offensive game and skating. In my mind that doesn't mean he wasn't ready for a role on the team, it was a move made with his development in mind. Imo that was an excellent decision that took a bit of balls to make. I think the bad decision was getting into the next man up line of thinking when Buch (I think) got injured. At the time Andersson was clocking 20 mins a night, playing at a ppg clip and was doing well. There was absolutely no need to not stay the course with him, and calling him up to play 8 minutes a night, sometimes as a winger, on a shitty line was just stupid.
    I don't think him not getting the call up after Howden went down is alarming at all. I choose to believe they actually learnt from the last time and have decided to stay the course at this point.

    I do agree with the last bit. If the guys we expect to be traded are moved on he should be called up after the deadline. And at that point they should absolutely give him the chance to play as the 3rd line C.

    I would also add that guys like him, whose game is based on a solid 200 ft game, hockey iq and other intangibles usually take longer to come into their own at the NHL level than skill based players. I'm not ready to give up on him just yet. I'm obviously not ecstatic with the pick, but it is what it is.

    A final point, the guys on the BSB podcast made a good point in relation to this. Hopefully the Rangers have learnt a lesson over the last two drafts. And that is that when they swing for the fences in the 1st round based on skill and high upside (Chytil, Kravtsov, Miller) they've made what at this point look like homerun picks. With the "safer" picks like Andersson, not so much.

  7. #227
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    Sure, he could develop like Couturier.

    Or like Malhotra.

    It's early. But so it's not looking good. Of course there are people who think we should have McIlrath playing on our team right now...

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    But he's supposed to be in the NHL now. Not the AHL.
    This is never true for a player who is 20.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I disagree to an extent on this take.
    The "NHL ready" thing is a bit of a buzzword, and I suppose it depends on your definition of what that actually means. But there is no doubt in my mind that Andersson could have played on the 4th line this year and he would have been fine. Certainly no worse than anyone else that has been centering that line. I mean, you can argue that they overcooked the NHL ready bit at the time of drafting him and I would argue that it makes little sense to spout shit like that as all you really get out of it is adding pressure on both the kid and the organization to have him deliver straight off the bat.

    In any case, in camp, a decision was made that he would be better off playing as a 1st line C in Hartford to work on his offensive game and skating. In my mind that doesn't mean he wasn't ready for a role on the team, it was a move made with his development in mind. Imo that was an excellent decision that took a bit of balls to make. I think the bad decision was getting into the next man up line of thinking when Buch (I think) got injured. At the time Andersson was clocking 20 mins a night, playing at a ppg clip and was doing well. There was absolutely no need to not stay the course with him, and calling him up to play 8 minutes a night, sometimes as a winger, on a shitty line was just stupid.
    I don't think him not getting the call up after Howden went down is alarming at all. I choose to believe they actually learnt from the last time and have decided to stay the course at this point.

    I do agree with the last bit. If the guys we expect to be traded are moved on he should be called up after the deadline. And at that point they should absolutely give him the chance to play as the 3rd line C.

    I would also add that guys like him, whose game is based on a solid 200 ft game, hockey iq and other intangibles usually take longer to come into their own at the NHL level than skill based players. I'm not ready to give up on him just yet. I'm obviously not ecstatic with the pick, but it is what it is.

    A final point, the guys on the BSB podcast made a good point in relation to this. Hopefully the Rangers have learnt a lesson over the last two drafts. And that is that when they swing for the fences in the 1st round based on skill and high upside (Chytil, Kravtsov, Miller) they've made what at this point look like homerun picks. With the "safer" picks like Andersson, not so much.
    agreed completely. i'm thinking he getting top minutes in the A is where he needs to be right now.
    Acqua in bocca

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    This is never true for a player who is 20.
    In today's NHL, sure it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    In today's NHL, sure it is.
    Not true. Those players are still the exception.
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  12. #232
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    Anderson’s draft year only 6 or 7 of the first round picks have made the nhl as of today.

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Not true. Those players are still the exception.
    Not anymore, but it really doesn't matter. I was responding to someone who said it's never true. So that's wrong, regardless.

  14. #234
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    https://theathletic.com/811876/2019/...rade-deadline/

    Via Lebrun

    New York Rangers: Step right up, the Rangers knew from Day 1 in October this was their trade deadline destiny, fulfilling a plan that started a year ago with a very public rebuild plan. The pending UFAs for sale include Kevin Hayes and Mats Zuccarello as the more promising items. Hayes would be a beast of an add for a contender looking for size and enough skill to play in a top-six role. Hard-hitting blueliner Adam McQuaid is also a pending UFA and will likely be moved. After that, the Rangers are listening on signed players, a guy like Vladislav Namestnikov, 26, as an example. He’s signed for another year at $4 million. He’s yours for the right price. Having the necessary cap room for July 1 and a possible run at the likes of Panarin and/or Erik Karlsson (unless he stays in San Jose) are possibilities.

  15. #235
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    Yeah, I doubt the latter, but I suppose he couched that properly with "possibilities."
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If youíre a good loser, youíre a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  16. #236
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    Tolvanen as Trade Bait?

    A year ago, the Predators ruled 2017 first-round winger Eeli Tolvanen off-limits in trade talks following the teenaged Finn’s breakout Olympics. They had seemed willing to consider the possibility of sending Tolvanen to the Rangers in a rental deal for Rick Nash, but placed the winger under quarantine following the Pyeongchang Games.

    Now, though, we are told Tolvanen is being used as bait while the Predators, who have already obtained bottom-sixers Brian Boyle and Cody McLeod, hunt big game of the Artemi Panarin-Mark Stone variety.

    Tolvanen for Mats Zuccarello? Not likely.
    https://nypost.com/2019/02/10/caps-a...ttle-loophole/

    --

    Interesting, isn't it? Just last week there were some here decrying the idea of the Rangers' shopping Andersson as "giving up on him," yet here are the Predators, with a more productive prospect, who has also failed to impress since being selected in the same draft, doing exactly that.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If youíre a good loser, youíre a loser."
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    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
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  17. #237
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    Those are 100% different trading scenarios.

    Re-building team giving up on a pick vs. Contending team willing to part with top prospect to win now.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    https://nypost.com/2019/02/10/caps-a...ttle-loophole/

    --

    Interesting, isn't it? Just last week there were some here decrying the idea of the Rangers' shopping Andersson as "giving up on him," yet here are the Predators, with a more productive prospect, who has also failed to impress since being selected in the same draft, doing exactly that.
    I'm not sure it's the same. The Preds going all in for a playoff run and trading one of their top prospects is more akin to the Rangers trading Doug Weight in 93 for Tikannen and Amonte in 94 for Noonan and Matteau. The Rangers trading Andersson at this point, with the Rangers being a re-building team, would send different signals than Tolvenan getting traded from a contending team.

  19. #239
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    I know the context isn't the same, but the principle is. The Rangers don't need to hold onto guys they draft longer just because they have a longer runway. If they feel Andersson's progress has stalled, they're entirely in the right to get out ahead of things by flipping him, perhaps for a prospect in a similar position elsewhere.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If youíre a good loser, youíre a loser."
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    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  20. #240
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    The principle In Tolvanen being possibly available though is not “getting ahead” of anything. It’s about using their best non roster chip to go all in on trying to win now. Kind of like how the preds themselves acquired forsberg. The caps were going for the cup not giving up on forsberg who at the time was as blue chip as they got.

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