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Thread: Rangers Should Not Trade Kevin Hayes

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    Rangers Should Not Trade Kevin Hayes

    I will say this again, too, not for the first time and certainly not the last: The Rangers should not trade Kevin Hayes, whose shorthanded goal with 40 seconds remaining broke a 1-1 tie, unless the impending free agentís ask on a new contract is completely unrealistic or an interested third party offers a young, first-pair right defenseman (see: Cale Makar, UMass/Colorado) in exchange for No. 13. Both of these hypotheticals are unlikely.

    I donít care whether the team is ready to contend in two years or four. This building process will not be aided by trading the center who has been the teamís best player for the past two years. All teams ó even, or perhaps especially, ones in the Rangersí position ó need linchpins.

    When you find them, you donít send them away. You donít sacrifice your few known quantities for a roll of the dice. That would represent a full measure that would leave me empty.
    https://nypost.com/2018/12/19/ranger...aring-up-team/
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    Everyone is for sale.

    As always - I just care about the return.


    We need to, eventually, get rid of some middle 6 forwards for top guys. I'm all for doing whatever it takes to make that happen.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

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    ^ That.

    I'm a first class Hayes hater but he's played very very well. His return at this point should be astronomical. If the Colorado rumor is true, I'm talking about OTT's #1 pick+.

    This isn't the first time Brooks as written this, so it won't be the first time I say this: Rangers are still rebuilding. Hayes will be 27 at the end of this season which makes him about 29 or 30 when this team is a legit contender. Why not get something for him now, while the team is still a few years away?
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    1-1a C's are very hard to come by and its probably one of the main reasons we lost to LA.

    maybe its because he knows he will get paid but the guy has put in the work on his game and might be more valuable than kreider right now. i'm not sure i'd part with him unless i'm getting a known quantity in return.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slobberknocker View Post
    1-1a C's are very hard to come by and its probably one of the main reasons we lost to LA.

    maybe its because he knows he will get paid but the guy has put in the work on his game and might be more valuable than kreider right now. i'm not sure i'd part with him unless i'm getting a known quantity in return.
    But if the team is arguably (and statistically) one of the worst in the league, what's the point? The idea is to build a young core which will all grow together. We could get a massive return for Hayes and add to that list of Chytil, Andersson, Kratsov, Miller, Lundkvist, Howden, Buch. By the time the kids are ready, Hayes will be on edge of his prime if not already on the decline. Gotta strike while the iron is hot and get a haul for him. He may never repeat this kind of performance.
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    i understand your ideology for sure. Listened to Pierre on NHL network driving in this morning and his take in talking to GM's around the league is that the Rangers rebuild is ahead of schedule.

    Add Panarin and Stone next year and who knows...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    But if the team is arguably (and statistically) one of the worst in the league, what's the point? The idea is to build a young core which will all grow together. We could get a massive return for Hayes and add to that list of Chytil, Andersson, Kratsov, Miller, Lundkvist, Howden, Buch. By the time the kids are ready, Hayes will be on edge of his prime if not already on the decline. Gotta strike while the iron is hot and get a haul for him. He may never repeat this kind of performance.
    If the team is arguably (and statistically) one of the worst in the league, and you replace the best player with a teenager, the team gets way worse. Then it takes you from contending in two years to hopefully 4 if not longer. Then in 4-6 years you're having this same debate about the first batch of kids you got in your rebuild. Hello, Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson. We should start figuring out what scrub D-man we're gonna trade Chytil for in 2023.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slobberknocker View Post
    i understand your ideology for sure. Listened to Pierre on NHL network driving in this morning and his take in talking to GM's around the league is that the Rangers rebuild is ahead of schedule.

    Add Panarin and Stone next year and who knows...
    They're not getting both. That'd be like a $24 million bill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    If the team is arguably (and statistically) one of the worst in the league, and you replace the best player with a teenager, the team gets way worse. Then it takes you from contending in two years to hopefully 4 if not longer. Then in 4-6 years you're having this same debate about the first batch of kids you got in your rebuild. Hello, Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson. We should start figuring out what scrub D-man we're gonna trade Chytil for in 2023.
    That makes sense on a team that's competing, not for a team that isnt competitive.

    On a losing team, does it matter if your 2nd line center is 50-pt Hayes or 40-pt Howden?

    We NEED top level talent. We can lose a handful of middle 6 guys, and the team wont get worse.
    We need to stop overpaying middle 6 guys, which prevents them from retaining other players or signing free agents.

    Re-signing Hayes comes down to the answer to this question - can the Rangers win the cup with Zibanejad and Hayes as their top 2 centers?
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    ^ That.

    I'm a first class Hayes hater but he's played very very well. His return at this point should be astronomical. If the Colorado rumor is true, I'm talking about OTT's #1 pick+.

    This isn't the first time Brooks as written this, so it won't be the first time I say this: Rangers are still rebuilding. Hayes will be 27 at the end of this season which makes him about 29 or 30 when this team is a legit contender. Why not get something for him now, while the team is still a few years away?
    Would never happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    If the team is arguably (and statistically) one of the worst in the league, and you replace the best player with a teenager, the team gets way worse. Then it takes you from contending in two years to hopefully 4 if not longer. Then in 4-6 years you're having this same debate about the first batch of kids you got in your rebuild. Hello, Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson. We should start figuring out what scrub D-man we're gonna trade Chytil for in 2023.
    Then why rebuild at all? Trading McDonaugh made them way worse and took them away from being a contender as well.

    The point of a rebuild is to gain cap flexibility, restock the cupboards with talent, and foster from the bottom up with cap-controlled players. I guess I don't understand the point of paying Hayes 7m+ for three years of scraping together OT losses and missing the playoffs when you can get rid of him for a good return, lose more games, and bottom out quicker. The idea being to hit the bottom and rebound back up the table.

    I think this idea that the rangers can "go for it" next year is pretty absurd. So, my opinion is to sell our most valuable assets now so we don't have to wallow in 9th or 10th for the next three years. The worst thing the Rangers can be is mediocre.
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    That makes sense on a team that's competing, not for a team that isnt competitive.

    On a losing team, does it matter if your 2nd line center is 50-pt Hayes or 40-pt Howden?
    Well Hayes is on pace for 67 points and Howden for 36, so yeah that 31 point difference matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Re-signing Hayes comes down to the answer to this question - can the Rangers win the cup with Zibanejad and Hayes as their top 2 centers?
    In the 22 games since October 30th, around the time Zibanejad was given the defensive role, Hayes has 24 points and Zibanejad has 21, so I'd say yes they could.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Well Hayes is on pace for 67 points and Howden for 36, so yeah that 31 point difference matters.



    In the 22 games since October 30th, around the time Zibanejad was given the defensive role, Hayes has 24 points and Zibanejad has 21, so I'd say yes they could.
    So then the next question is, do you think they could win the cup in the next three years (Hayes' prime)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    So then the next question is, do you think they could win the cup in the next three years (Hayes' prime)?
    He can still be in his prime at 32. He's not dependent on athleticism.

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    Both of these are pretty small sample sizes
    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Well Hayes is on pace for 67 points and Howden for 36, so yeah that 31 point difference matters.
    Yes, it makes a difference between 14th or 15th in the conference - insignificant for a "rebuilding" team


    In the 22 games since October 30th, around the time Zibanejad was given the defensive role, Hayes has 24 points and Zibanejad has 21, so I'd say yes they could.
    8-10-3

    whoops
    11-10


    3 OT/SO wins.
    Last edited by josh; 12-19-2018 at 02:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Then why rebuild at all? Trading McDonaugh made them way worse and took them away from being a contender as well.

    The point of a rebuild is to gain cap flexibility, restock the cupboards with talent, and foster from the bottom up with cap-controlled players. I guess I don't understand the point of paying Hayes 7m+ for three years of scraping together OT losses and missing the playoffs when you can get rid of him for a good return, lose more games, and bottom out quicker. The idea being to hit the bottom and rebound back up the table.

    I think this idea that the rangers can "go for it" next year is pretty absurd. So, my opinion is to sell our most valuable assets now so we don't have to wallow in 9th or 10th for the next three years. The worst thing the Rangers can be is mediocre.
    You need quality veterans to make a rebuild work...

    gain cap flexibility - deal with Shattenkirk, Staal, and Smith
    restock the cupboards with talent - pretty well stocked

    If you sign a Panarin, the offense improves. Chytil, Kravtsov, and our 2019 1st rounder develop better, and the offense improves even more, surrounded by Zibanejad, Panarin, Hayes, and Kreider than if they have to carry the load as teenagers.

    The issue is defense. Clear out 2 of Shattenkirk, Staal, and Smith to make room for Hajek and Rykov to compete. Give Miller, Lundkvist, and a 2019 late 1st (from Zucc) another couple years to develop.

    Signing Hayes and Panarin is fine. That's not "going for it". That's part of "rebuilding" the team. Just don't trade picks or prospects for anything other than a bonafide low- to mid-20's top 4 D.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    He can still be in his prime at 32. He's not dependent on athleticism.
    But now you're hoping for a statistical and physical anomaly. You can't base your decision on that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Both of these are pretty small sample sizes


    Yes, it makes a difference between 14th or 15th in the conference - insignificant for a "rebuilding" team



    8-10-3

    whoops
    11-10


    3 OT/SO wins.
    This is a result of the D-corps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    This is a result of the D-corps
    since Oct 30
    They are 21st in GF
    They are 13th in GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    You need quality veterans to make a rebuild work...

    gain cap flexibility - deal with Shattenkirk, Staal, and Smith
    restock the cupboards with talent - pretty well stocked

    If you sign a Panarin, the offense improves. Chytil, Kravtsov, and our 2019 1st rounder develop better, and the offense improves even more, surrounded by Zibanejad, Panarin, Hayes, and Kreider than if they have to carry the load as teenagers.

    The issue is defense. Clear out 2 of Shattenkirk, Staal, and Smith to make room for Hajek and Rykov to compete. Give Miller, Lundkvist, and a 2019 late 1st (from Zucc) another couple years to develop.

    Signing Hayes and Panarin is fine. That's not "going for it". That's part of "rebuilding" the team. Just don't trade picks or prospects for anything other than a bonafide low- to mid-20's top 4 D.
    Pretty well stocked? People are bitching about Andersson already -- our #7 overall pick. The other day someone said Howden had plateaued and would never be more than a 3rd liner. So which is it? Are we well stocked with 3rd liners?

    "Talent" is the key word. We need a lottery pick this season -- and preferably a top 2 pick. 3-4 first rounders, including a top pick and NOW we're talking about being stocked.

    What if Panarin doesn't want to come to a non-playoff team? What's the plan then?

    A rebuild doesn't happen in a year and now one player is playing above his head and we're ready to call it off -- I don't understand. This team SUCKS. Have we forgotten that? They're a long way away from making any kind of noise in the playoffs.
    GORTON 2020

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