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Thread: Do the Rangers Try to Move Kreider This Season?

  1. #41
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    I still hate the idea of trading Kreider. I know he doesn't really live up to his potential night in and night out but he usually does something positive that helps the team win on any given night. Championship teams are not only full of young guys. There has to be some veterans mixed in and I think with everything that Chris brings on and off the ice he should stay. Honestly, with the right center, I think he still achieves some of the things that we've thought should be happening (30 goal season).

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Trading a first line player for a future third liner is a great way to kill a rebuild.

    Top line talent or bust
    He’s only a first line player by default. He isn’t a first line player for a good team. That’s why I can’t see a deal for him where we get high end prospects in return. I’m not actually advocating moving him for that, merely saying what I think we can expect in return if we move to trade him. I agree with Kevin, I think it might be worth keeping him around unless someone gets desperate and offer something we can’t refuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I don’t think it’s about being desperate or settling, it’s about managing expectations and being realistic. Kreider is an ok to good player, but he isn’t a difference maker for a team going for the cup. In Nashville he doesn’t get near their top 6 and probably battles with Jarnkrok for the 3rd line LW spot. It’s true some have question marks over Fabbro, but him and Tolvanen are still seen by most as the Preds top two prospects. And I really don’t see a team packaging the top end of their farm system for a guy like Kreider. It would have to be a desperate situation imo, something like Arvidsson doing his cruciates or similar situation that leaves a massive hole.

    I think a more likely package is a pick, a good to very good prospect/young player and possibly a decent prospect with upside.

    I’m having a hard time seeing teams giving up more than a pick for Zucc as a rental. I guess the hope is he steps his game up and we have a bit of a bidding war to drive up the price.
    Completely understand what you're saying. Yet, we don't have to move Kreids so why accept a package of quantity when we really need top-end prospects? Like Kevin said, we will be reluctant to move him, even moreso if he gets hot. We can get picks or a decent prospects for others like Zuc , Names, McQuaid, Spoons, etc. Hayes may also be moved. My point - We need to target prospects specifically like the draft, not just get fed a team's 2nd level prospects and settle.

    Maybe we need a team that really is desperate for a Cup over another prospect, especially if their system is loaded. Or suffer a key injury. The Jets have too many kid forwards and this year struggle to get Roslovic and Lemieux minutes. Vasalainen may have a long wait for real minutes, Appleton forever. They have Samberg and Nicu, they can spare one. Got to give to get.

    The Avs have a loaded system and may have the best 1st line in hockey and need top 6 wingers so they can be more than a one line team. Just have to find a match.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Completely understand what you're saying. Yet, we don't have to move Kreids so why accept a package of quantity when we really need top-end prospects? Like Kevin said, we will be reluctant to move him, even moreso if he gets hot. We can get picks or a decent prospects for others like Zuc , Names, McQuaid, Spoons, etc. Hayes may also be moved. My point - We need to target prospects specifically like the draft, not just get fed a team's 2nd level prospects and settle.

    Maybe we need a team that really is desperate for a Cup over another prospect, especially if their system is loaded. Or suffer a key injury. The Jets have too many kid forwards and this year struggle to get Roslovic and Lemieux minutes. Vasalainen may have a long wait for real minutes, Appleton forever. They have Samberg and Nicu, they can spare one. Got to give to get.

    The Avs have a loaded system and may have the best 1st line in hockey and need top 6 wingers so they can be more than a one line team. Just have to find a match.
    Yeah, like I said above I’m not saying we move him for that return. I’m just saying the return you suggested from Nashville is unrealistic in my opinion.
    I really can’t see teams looking at Kreider and saying “this guy is the missing piece” and be willing to part with a couple of high end prospects to get him.
    You mentioned the Avs, for me they’d be stupid to send us their best prospects for Kreids. He’s not going to help them win the cup so that would be a short term solution for minimal gain.

    I hope I’m wrong of course and teams are willing to pay through the nose for him. But I think with Kreider we might be better off keeping him for now.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Yeah, like I said above I’m not saying we move him for that return. I’m just saying the return you suggested from Nashville is unrealistic in my opinion.
    I really can’t see teams looking at Kreider and saying “this guy is the missing piece” and be willing to part with a couple of high end prospects to get him.
    You mentioned the Avs, for me they’d be stupid to send us their best prospects for Kreids. He’s not going to help them win the cup so that would be a short term solution for minimal gain.

    I hope I’m wrong of course and teams are willing to pay through the nose for him. But I think with Kreider we might be better off keeping him for now.
    Kreids is a rarebird, there are going to be a couple of teams who would love to add him. Blazing fast PF and he'll stand in front of the net with the best of them and won't shrink to the tighter checking. He's going to be one of the best wingers available and he's beyond a rental. I think you are underestimating his value a little. We want a McD like return for him. And should get it, if we decide to move him.

    You're probably right about Nashville. But we need a potential top line winger in return, like Tolvanen, plus something. BTW, if your top prospect is someone like Makar or Heiskanen, they are not for sale. But Vasalainen or Brannstrom (#2 prospect) are slightly longer shots to being elite, so they should be tradeable if the org has depth at that position.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    He’s only a first line player by default. He isn’t a first line player for a good team. That’s why I can’t see a deal for him where we get high end prospects in return. I’m not actually advocating moving him for that, merely saying what I think we can expect in return if we move to trade him. I agree with Kevin, I think it might be worth keeping him around unless someone gets desperate and offer something we can’t refuse.
    He’s a great complimentary first line player on just about any team. Size, speed, shot, physicality, net presence. And a few clutch playoff goals, too. Some of what he does doesn’t show on the scoresheet
    Closer to a first line player than anyone else on the team.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Kreids is a rarebird, there are going to be a couple of teams who would love to add him. Blazing fast PF and he'll stand in front of the net with the best of them and won't shrink to the tighter checking. He's going to be one of the best wingers available and he's beyond a rental. I think you are underestimating his value a little. We want a McD like return for him. And should get it, if we decide to move him.

    You're probably right about Nashville. But we need a potential top line winger in return, like Tolvanen, plus something. BTW, if your top prospect is someone like Makar or Heiskanen, they are not for sale. But Vasalainen or Brannstrom (#2 prospect) are slightly longer shots to being elite, so they should be tradeable if the org has depth at that position.
    It’s worth pointing out that we didn’t get high end prospects in the McD deal.
    Gorton & co did well in identifying tier 2 prospects worth taking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    He’s a great complimentary first line player on just about any team. Size, speed, shot, physicality, net presence. And a few clutch playoff goals, too. Some of what he does doesn’t show on the scoresheet
    Closer to a first line player than anyone else on the team.
    You're right, we need high-end potential if we are moving him. Stand firm in negotiations. Not to split hairs, but I'd put Zibs in that complimentary 1st liner category too, but we have him locked up. It would take even a bit more to pry him away. Of course another concussion could change that.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    He’s a great complimentary first line player on just about any team. Size, speed, shot, physicality, net presence. And a few clutch playoff goals, too. Some of what he does doesn’t show on the scoresheet
    Closer to a first line player than anyone else on the team.

    Going to have to disagree with you here. He’s unlikely to be considered for the first line on most contending teams. For many of them he’d be unlikely to crack the 2nd line.
    But that’s just my opinion. I’m happy to agree to disagree.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Heís a great complimentary first line player on just about any team. Size, speed, shot, physicality, net presence. And a few clutch playoff goals, too. Some of what he does doesnít show on the scoresheet
    Closer to a first line player than anyone else on the team.
    Heís too inconsistent for me to be a first line talent. Maybe that could change if he gets some chemistry with some legit top flight talent, who knows
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  11. #51
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    Welp, that’s the end of that discussion.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Going to have to disagree with you here. He’s unlikely to be considered for the first line on most contending teams. For many of them he’d be unlikely to crack the 2nd line.
    But that’s just my opinion. I’m happy to agree to disagree.
    He's literally already been on the first line of a contending team. Year over year.

  13. #53
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    To say Kreider is not capable of helping a team or being the difference between a team winning a Cup or not is incredibly short sighted. He isn't carrying a team to a Cup, but he is exactly the kind of player who can put a team over the top.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    It’s worth pointing out that we didn’t get high end prospects in the McD deal.
    Gorton & co did well in identifying tier 2 prospects worth taking.
    I wouldn't call them Tier 2, Howden was raising eyebrows after being drafted in the 1st, averaging 1.6 PPG and unexpectedly getting the captaincy at Moosejaw and Team Canada. The Rangers targeted him from the get go.

    The rumor was the Rangers and Tampa thought Hajek was in the same untradeable category as Cal Foote. It appears teams had a higher ranking on Hajek than the mainstream press. It took adding JT Miller to get Hajek and make that deal happen.
    Last edited by Giacomin; 10-28-2018 at 02:12 PM.

  15. #55
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    Do the Rangers Try to Move Kreider This Season?

    I donít think Howden is top end talent, still very good but I believe Hajek is, who the trade was centered around.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    He's literally already been on the first line of a contending team. Year over year.
    Go on and tell me which contending teams you think will be likely to trade for him and play him on the first line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    To say Kreider is not capable of helping a team or being the difference between a team winning a Cup or not is incredibly short sighted. He isn't carrying a team to a Cup, but he is exactly the kind of player who can put a team over the top.
    Yes, but he’s probably not enough of a difference maker for teams to trade their best prospects to get him.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Go on and tell me which contending teams you think will be likely to trade for him and play him on the first line.
    Pittsburgh, TB, Boston, Toronto (not Washington)

    Maybe 2nd line for Nashville and Avs due to chemistry.
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Pittsburgh, TB, Boston, Toronto (not Washington)

    Maybe 2nd line for Nashville and Avs due to chemistry.
    That’s just crazy talk imo.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    That’s just crazy talk imo.
    Get crazy and tell me which team he doesn’t crack the top 6.

    This is just ironic coming from a guy using the handle Gravesy.
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