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Thread: Rangers Sending Two Scouts to Leafs/Pens Game; Nylander?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    It’s McD all over again.
    People are expecting all kinds of returns whereas in fact we’ll be lucky to get a 1st never mind an established, young player for the guys being moved at the deadline.
    The return for Mac was huge...more than I would've given up lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    The return for Mac was huge...more than I would've given up lol
    It was, but that’s not the point. People were talking about guys like Point, Sergachev and Gourde. McD was a lot better than what we have to flip now.
    You’re not getting an excellent young player like Kapanen for Zucc or anyone else we’re moving at the deadline. A 1st at best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    It was, but that’s not the point. People were talking about guys like Point, Sergachev and Gourde. McD was a lot better than what we have to flip now.
    You’re not getting an excellent young player like Kapanen for Zucc or anyone else we’re moving at the deadline. A 1st at best.
    But Kapanen could be a cap casualty, and it looks like they might be getting to the point where they have to move him now or lose him for nothing, that's the point you're ignoring...and he's not as valuable as Point or Sergachev anyways. He's more valuable than, say, Howden, but he's not as valuable as Point.

    And like I said, Zucc would be part of a package, not straight up.

  4. #44
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    What do you think Kapanen is going to get for his next contract?
    It's going to be < $3m, and that if he keeps producing like he is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    What do you think Kapanen is going to get for his next contract?
    It's going to be < $3m, and that if he keeps producing like he is.
    They won't allow that, they'll shuttle him back to 4th line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    What do you think Kapanen is going to get for his next contract?
    It's going to be < $3m, and that if he keeps producing like he is.
    What? He's a ppg player right now. Namestnikov just got $4m...and $3m might be too much for TOR anyways. Marner, Nylander and AM34 are going to get, what, $35m between them?

    Right now, they have $43m committed to next year. Those 3 take you to $78m with 1 goalie, 3 defensemen, and only 8 forwards signed. If Kapanen gets $3m and Gardiner gets $4.5m, even if the cap goes up another $5.5m to $85, you're over and don't have a full roster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    They won't allow that, they'll shuttle him back to 4th line.
    The damage is done already, or very close. Come his next contract, they're absolutely going to say "look what he did when given the minutes."

    He's far more valuable to them to ride out the hot streak and flip him than he is as a 4th liner.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    But Kapanen could be a cap casualty, and it looks like they might be getting to the point where they have to move him now or lose him for nothing, that's the point you're ignoring...and he's not as valuable as Point or Sergachev anyways. He's more valuable than, say, Howden, but he's not as valuable as Point.

    And like I said, Zucc would be part of a package, not straight up.
    But why? He’s at least as good as Zucc, and fits their style. Why flip him for Zucc as a rental? They can easily get far better if they move him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    But why? He’s at least as good as Zucc, and fits their style. Why flip him for Zucc as a rental? They can easily get far better if they move him.
    They can't get far better. They have to take a rental because they have to shed salary.

    There will probably be better rentals on the market than Zucc (though not many), but that's why I said Zucc as part of a package. Would you rather give up Kapanen + for Mark Stone or Zucc and, idk, Lindgren? Does flipping Kapanen for Alex Edler give you a better chance at a Cup this year than adding Zucc?

    Toronto has other options to shed salary - Kadri, Marleau, Zaitsev. But you can't move those first two without making your team worse this year, and Zaitsev would A) create another hole to fill and B) not get a huge return anyways. Or, you just hold Kapanen and not tender him, treat him like an in-house rental. For a guy who could net you more than what he's really worth in your lineup, I don't think that's the move.

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    I see Toronto targeting a Jesper Fast, or even Kreider, before Zucc.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I see Toronto targeting a Jesper Fast, or even Kreider, before Zucc.
    They can't take on salary next year though, even if it is only Fast's $2m.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    They can't take on salary next year though, even if it is only Fast's $2m.
    With Fast, you might see a Kapanen or Brown coming back.
    But Fast also provides what they need in the bottom 6.

    And Kreider really adds to their top 6, with the speed and physicality. He'd obviously bring back a player in a trade.

    They both have another year left on their deals, and you arent guessing.

    If you are a contending team, you worry about next season's cap space in the offseason.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    With Fast, you might see a Kapanen or Brown coming back.
    But Fast also provides what they need in the bottom 6.

    And Kreider really adds to their top 6, with the speed and physicality. He'd obviously bring back a player in a trade.

    They both have another year left on their deals, and you arent guessing.

    If you are a contending team, you worry about next season's cap space in the offseason.
    Not every contending team is the same. Toronto is just starting to feel the cap crunch and they have loads of guys to sign soon. Their window just opened and cost control and certainty is very important to them. Fast seems like a good fit not sure about Kreider only because of money

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    If they take on salary, they go into next off-season knowing full well that they're going to have to sell for pennies on the dollar, bc they'll have no leverage.

    I have a hard time seeing that happening

  15. #55
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    Yeah, we had a great shot at the cup this season, but we didnt want to worry about re-signing our 4th liners this upcoming offseason.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    They can't get far better. They have to take a rental because they have to shed salary.

    There will probably be better rentals on the market than Zucc (though not many), but that's why I said Zucc as part of a package. Would you rather give up Kapanen + for Mark Stone or Zucc and, idk, Lindgren? Does flipping Kapanen for Alex Edler give you a better chance at a Cup this year than adding Zucc?

    Toronto has other options to shed salary - Kadri, Marleau, Zaitsev. But you can't move those first two without making your team worse this year, and Zaitsev would A) create another hole to fill and B) not get a huge return anyways. Or, you just hold Kapanen and not tender him, treat him like an in-house rental. For a guy who could net you more than what he's really worth in your lineup, I don't think that's the move.
    I think they can get far better. There will be teams willing to give up an excellent prospect for him, for instance, and certainly there will be players available that would add more of a "win now" factor than Zucc. If the aim is to win the cup I don't see the logic in trading him for Zucc and whatever the Rangers would be willing to bundle. I don't think Gorton would give up any of his best prospects to get him.
    If Kapanen is playing well and the team looks good keeping him for a cup run isn't the worst decision in the world imo. Certainly better than trading him for Zucc and a mid level prospect.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    There is nothing the Rangers could offer that would make Dubas trade Marner.
    Skjei +?

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    Toronto has to trade Nylander as signing Matthews will cost them a crap load.

    I'd offer something like

    Buchnevich, Chytil and either Staal or Smith half retained for Nylander


    I'm selling high on Buchnevich and Chytil. Buchnevich is lazy and is easily replaceable by Andersson. I don't see any reason for the hype of Chytil. He will be replaced by a superior player in Nylander. Toronto isn't going to want to take much salary back so you probably have to retain half of Staal and Smith and I think they surely take Smith who can be replaced by Hajek. Send Lettieri down. He doesn't have it.


    Kreider-Zibanejad- Fast
    Andersson-Nylander-Zucc
    Vesey-Hayes-Spooner
    Namestnikov-Howden-Fogarty

    Skjei-McQuaid
    Staal-Pionk
    Hajek-Shattenkirk
    DeAngelo

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Sure, but they won't be successful, or make the players around them better.

    We should not be focusing on secondary players, as that's not a necessity during a rebuild or re-success of the franchise.
    Well if you are replacing slightly older or soon to be UFA's, it makes sense.

    Let's say they can get Kapanen at a reasonable cost. Either now or next season, he replaces any one of Spooner, Zuc, or Namestnikov, Vesey, and Hayes. All of whom are still tradable commodities come deadline.

    I'm not sure how much better Kapanen is vs any of these names.... People seem to still be high on him despite not really doing anything numbers wise in the NHL..

    I'd imagine getting one of Marner or Nylander will start with the cost of Andersson and Hajek. I think I'm ok with dealing them for such impact players. Obviously I'd rather not have to.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    If they take on salary, they go into next off-season knowing full well that they're going to have to sell for pennies on the dollar, bc they'll have no leverage.

    I have a hard time seeing that happening
    Yeah, but if that's the thinking, they probably should have made a move for McD or Karlsson last season. I don't think they have concerns with selling what they need to sell. Its just that there's not much out there available that they NEED to deal their players for. Swapping Zuc or Fast for Kapanen doesn't really help their situation of getting Nylander on the ice or getting a top 4 D man on the roster.

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