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Thread: Is This the Beginning of the End for Marc Staal?

  1. #1
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    Is This the Beginning of the End for Marc Staal?

    Single-game samples are incomplete at best and deceitful at worst, and make that doubly so for the preseason. But when David Quinn and his coaching staff look at the video of last nightís game, heís going to see Marc Staal spending an awful lot of time in the defensive zone.

    The veteran defenseman got absolutely buried by the Islandersí top line, allowing 14 shot attempts against at five-on-five while the Rangers generated just two themselves. Certainly, this is not all Staalís fault. Kevin Shattenkirk had moments where it was clear he is still working to get to game speed, while three forwards are on the ice who contribute to the defensive side as well.

    But Staal himself still did not look good, and in fact he has struggled throughout the preseason. His numbers donít look great, save for some good shifts against a handful of Devilsí teenagers and AHLers. He also made a mess that resulted in a goal once Taylor Hall hit the ice.



    Three preseason games is just that; three preseason games. But thatís the sample size the Rangersí coaching staff has to work with right now. While someone like Kevin Shattenkirk who is coming off an injury, or Mats Zuccarello who has proven himself season-after-season, would get the benefit of the doubt, Staal has earned none.

    There were many arguments in Staalís favor that, rightly or wrongly, offered Alain Vigneault plausible deniability. He had been a key part of the defense when the Rangers contended, and the coaching staff trusted him in important games. They were trying to win immediately, and besides, there were no defensemen in the ranks who could step in.

    All of that is gone now. The coaching staff is brand new (save for sophomore Lindy Ruff), and Staal holds no nostalgic appeal to them. While the team will certainly try to win every time it steps on the ice, the coaches know they are building towards something bigger than whatever happens in October or November of 2018.
    Like any head coach - really, any person no matter his/her job - David Quinn is going to make bad decisions. Heís going to appeal to experience, or emotion, or just straight up make a wrong evaluation. However, he also has the mental fortitude and desire to make decisions that might make other coaches queasy. Staalís presence in the opening night lineup would hardly be a surprise, but if he continues on the path that he has for the last few seasons, then donít be surprised if David Quinn sticks to his word and puts Staal in the press box. Not to show him up, or to make some sort of statement to the team. Rather, because his modus operandi is putting out the six defensemen he believes give him the best chance to win on a given night no matter what their resumes might look like or how heavy that decision might be.
    https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2018...inger-lettieri
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    imo definitely especially with this season and 2 more at a relatively high aav for the player he's gonna be at this rate.

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    Don't remember how it works. Can his cap hit be buried in Hartford? I know he'd have to agree to go down.

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    There never has been any question that Staal will not be viable through the end of his contract and that when the end comes, it won't be pretty (or necessarily quick). It could be in a matter of weeks; it could be a year and a half from now. When it comes, it will start with some healthy scratches. There may be some short term rallies from the proud pro, but the decline will continue. There will be no trading his contract, even with assumption of half of it. He most likely will be bought out, and it is just a matter of whether it is after this season or next. All that said, just watch him then sign with a contender and play on the top unit like Girardi!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoMinutesForNothing View Post
    Don't remember how it works. Can his cap hit be buried in Hartford? I know he'd have to agree to go down.
    No, not entirely. Wade Redden rule applies, so the max they can gain is $900K. Also, he has a full No-Movement Clause for exactly this reason. Fat chance he waives it to go to Hartford. You might be able to get him to flip on his No-Trade Clause, though, and move him at 50% retention?
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If youíre a good loser, youíre a loser."
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    Staal's NMC is now a limited trade clause! Maybe some team suffers an injury and is desperate for D, but doesn't want to give up much. We should jump on shipping him out, first chance we get, regardless of any circumstance here.

    Bottom line: Pair him with Pionk and hope he plays the way he did last year. Then be opportunistic, if any interest emerges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Staal's NMC is now a limited trade clause! Maybe some team suffers an injury and is desperate for D, but doesn't want to give up much. We should jump on shipping him out, first chance we get, regardless of any circumstance here.

    Bottom line: Pair him with Pionk and hope he plays the way he did last year. Then be opportunistic, if any interest emerges.
    No, it isn't. They are separate clauses. You're conflating a full NTC, which he may or may not still have, with a full NMC, which he definitely still has.

    My guess is CapFriendly is doing something similar, because they have him listed as a full NMC throughout:

    https://www.capfriendly.com/players/marc-staal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sod16 View Post
    There never has been any question that Staal will not be viable through the end of his contract and that when the end comes, it won't be pretty (or necessarily quick). It could be in a matter of weeks; it could be a year and a half from now. When it comes, it will start with some healthy scratches. There may be some short term rallies from the proud pro, but the decline will continue. There will be no trading his contract, even with assumption of half of it. He most likely will be bought out, and it is just a matter of whether it is after this season or next. All that said, just watch him then sign with a contender and play on the top unit like Girardi!
    Yes we knew this wouldn't be pretty, even though Sather was oblivious. But did you have to be so damn pessimistic and bum me/us out? There is more hope than you think. Not every team or GM is as sharp as you give them credit for. There are also teams with tons of cap, some who may value vet presence or think he can come back like his brother did. Just saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    No, it isn't. They are separate clauses. You're conflating a full NTC, which he may or may not still have, with a full NMC, which he definitely still has.

    My guess is CapFriendly is doing something similar, because they have him listed as a full NMC throughout:

    https://www.capfriendly.com/players/marc-staal
    OK, to clarify. It was my understanding that July 1 the Rangers could now request Staal to produce a list of teams he would accept a trade to. Not sure how many teams he needs to name. Is this incorrect? Anyone have the real deal and details??? For purposes of a trade only.

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    Always best to write a take down after the third game of pre-season.

    What a hack.

    Also, the writer is a hack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    OK, to clarify. It was my understanding that July 1 the Rangers could now request Staal to produce a list of teams he would accept a trade to. Not sure how many teams he needs to name. Is this incorrect? Anyone have the real deal and details??? For purposes of a trade only.
    As far as I know, he has a full NMC, meaning he cannot be waived and sent to HFD without his consent. I'm not sure, exactly, what his trade protection is (or that it even matters if he has none).

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Always best to write a take down after the third game of pre-season.
    You say that like Marc Staal has been problematic for three preason games, and only three preseason games and not the last two-plus years.
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    Is this the beginning of the end for Marc Staal?
    You’d fucking hope so.

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    It's like how Girardi was awful and not good enough to play for the Rangers but was somehow good enough to play a prominent role on the best team in the league.

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    I didn't think his play was that bad during the pre-season. He was one of the best defenders, last season. They are switching to a structured skating that should benefit his style of play.

    I'll re-evaluate after his next shift.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    As far as I know, he has a full NMC, meaning he cannot be waived and sent to HFD without his consent. I'm not sure, exactly, what his trade protection is (or that it even matters if he has none).



    You say that like Marc Staal has been problematic for three preason games, and only three preseason games and not the last two-plus years.
    You say that like he didn't have a good season least year, on a shit show defense.

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    Is This the Beginning of the End for Marc Staal?

    He didn't. He was OK. Good, in that case, was relative to how awful everyone else was. Like you getting in a seven car pileup and having the least damage. He was still nowhere near worth his cap hit, and was overplayed.

    On any decent team, just like his buddy G, he's a No. 6 who should be relied on sparingly.


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    Except Girardi was more like a #4, on the best team in tbe Conference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    He didn't. He was OK. Good, in that case, was relative to how awful everyone else was. Like you getting in a seven car pileup and having the least damage. He was still nowhere near worth his cap hit, and was overplayed.

    On any decent team, just like his buddy G, he's a No. 6 who should be relied on sparingly.


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    Right, but this isn't a decent team. And he's not the reason the rest of the D was bad. Even if he's a mediocre D man...He was still the best D man last year, and the D isn't much better this year. By the time his contract is over, the stud D we drafted will be in the league. That will be the beginning of the end.

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    On what basis was Staal our best d-man out of interest?

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    Technically the end of his contract will be the end
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