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Thread: What if They Don't Lose Like We Expect?

  1. #21
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    I like Hayes. I'd have liked to have kept him long-term. But they clearly chose not to, and really, one of he or Zibanejad was likely to be moved in the next year or so anyway to make room for Andersson and Chytil, not to mention the rest of the young centers who the team would be stupid to shut out.
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    I think every single thing Gorton has done since the letter points to an organization 100% committed to a proper rebuild.
    They will be sellers no matter what, and rightly so.
    The idea that this team are going to be in a position around the deadline where they have to make a decision is total la la land stuff imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    I couldn't disagree with this more. It doesn't send a bad message. It sends the right one. That they're committed to this thing, truly, and that the kids are the future. Moving guys out opens spots for MORE youth.


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    Well what I meant by that is that, for the young players already on the team, it'd basically send a message that management is not confident in them to get it done. And if we were in that position where we are at the playoff bubble, it'd really only be because those kids were outperforming expectations already.

    edit: with that said, I might be inclined to agree with your point on Hayes. He is in that sweet spot of likely having a lot of value while at the same time not being so absolutely essential to our success (unless he has some kind of insane breakout contract year) where we as a team (and again, in the hypothetical where we are at least on the playoff bubble) would get a lot worse without him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I think every single thing Gorton has done since the letter points to an organization 100% committed to a proper rebuild.
    They will be sellers no matter what, and rightly so.
    The idea that this team are going to be in a position around the deadline where they have to make a decision is total la la land stuff imo.
    you're probably right, but it's August and it's just a hypothetical discussion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sod16 View Post
    Given Slats/Gorton's historical obsession with "getting something" for UFAs even when we are assured of making the playoffs, I think we will be a significant seller even if we are a few points into a playoff position.
    When have we been sellers of UFA players while in a playoff spot ?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    When have we been sellers of UFA players while in a playoff spot ?


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    Right. The Rangers are historically the opposite. The 2016 season is a prime example. That wasn't a good team yet they held onto Yandle and added Eric Staal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlairBettsBlocksEverything View Post
    you're probably right, but it's August and it's just a hypothetical discussion
    I get that. But even in a hypothetical scenario where this team somehow finds itself in playoff contention it's my opinion that not being sellers would be the wrong move and go against everything they've said and done since February. We should flip the likes of Zucarello and Hayes and probably a few others to have another draft with several 1st round picks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I get that. But even in a hypothetical scenario where this team somehow finds itself in playoff contention it's my opinion that not being sellers would be the wrong move and go against everything they've said and done since February. We should flip the likes of Zucarello and Hayes and probably a few others to have another draft with several 1st round picks.
    I think we will probably see Brassard- Zib + pick type trades, regardless.

    If the Rangers turn into this seasons Avs, Devils or Knights, I could see them making a move that will benefit them this season, and into the future. (Panarin) But, the chances are slim.

    I can understand Phil's paranoia based on past seasons, but making 1 move isnt ruining a rebuild.
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    What if They Don't Lose Like We Expect?

    I think they will be better than last season. Even if you’re just talking about “watch-ability”. I’ve never been bored watching Rangers hockey like I was last season.

    In terms of wins I wouldn’t be surprised but I am also not expecting it.

    If they are middle of the pack you still trade guys to get more picks. I dont want to move up in the draft unless there is a bonafide future star available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I think we will probably see Brassard- Zib + pick type trades, regardless.

    If the Rangers turn into this seasons Avs, Devils or Knights, I could see them making a move that will benefit them this season, and into the future. (Panarin) But, the chances are slim.

    I can understand Phil's paranoia based on past seasons, but making 1 move isnt ruining a rebuild.
    I totally agree, especially with the Brassard- Zib + pick type trades. The roster as it sits has zero elite, star player. Meaning no player that is in the top say 150 players in the league. IMO they will do whatever they have to get at least one that can be the poster boy. Most likely through a trade because it would be a hard sell to a ufa and Hayes will definitely be in that package deal.

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    Bottom line? Don’t buy new jersey anytime soon!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4EverRangerFrank View Post
    Bottom line? Don’t buy new jersey anytime soon!!


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    I will say this: I think this team is going to surprise people. But even if they are in contention, I agree with Phil: I don't think the plan changes at all. They're committed to the rebuild.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    When have we been sellers of UFA players while in a playoff spot ?


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    They were, what, a point out when they waived the white flag last February? They could easily have bought and made the final wildcard. Instead, they proactively sold. I'd say that counts.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Lothbrok View Post
    I will say this: I think this team is going to surprise people. But even if they are in contention, I agree with Phil: I don't think the plan changes at all. They're committed to the rebuild.
    The only way it changes is if they're 2005-06 surprising. As in picked to finish near the bottom of the league almost universally and strike gold with garbage, becoming the most unlikely powerhouse in the league.


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    What if They Don't Lose Like We Expect?

    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I think we will probably see Brassard- Zib + pick type trades, regardless.

    If the Rangers turn into this seasons Avs, Devils or Knights, I could see them making a move that will benefit them this season, and into the future. (Panarin) But, the chances are slim.

    I can understand Phil's paranoia based on past seasons, but making 1 move isnt ruining a rebuild.
    I'd actually be in favor of that kind of move. I've written before, just a month ago or so, that trading for pending free agents who you intend to keep is smart business. Too few make it to market to rely on hope as a strategy. So, while optically it kind of sucks to give up pieces for a guy "you could have had for just money," a few months later, the fact is we'll never know if anyone could have actually had the player. They almost always re-sign before hand.

    tl;dr: get talent when talent is available to be got.


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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    They were, what, a point out when they waived the white flag last February? They could easily have bought and made the final wildcard. Instead, they proactively sold. I'd say that counts.


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    The difference is at the end of it they still would have been a team with an aging core, and likely worse the year following. If the same thing happened this year, you can no longer point to the core being aging and expecting to be worse next year. There would be more to lose this year by selling a playoff spot for picks. Most importantly of which is getting the young guys' feet wet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    The difference is at the end of it they still would have been a team with an aging core, and likely worse the year following. If the same thing happened this year, you can no longer point to the core being aging and expecting to be worse next year. There would be more to lose this year by selling a playoff spot for picks. Most importantly of which is getting the young guys' feet wet.
    In year one? To what benefit?

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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    In year one? To what benefit?

    "Congratulations on your first-round sweep, Lias and Filip — hope you learned something valuable!"


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    First, they get to see how much faster, more physical, and tighter the space gets.

    Second, I am still playing under the hypothetical assumption that this team is a good deal better than we expect them to be...4th-6th seed. I don't see that as a team you write off as a "sweep" and out. In that scenario, they are probably a 100-104 point team and A) producing offensively and B) not a disaster defensively.

    If they are in that position, it is a big mistake to sell, just as it would be a big mistake to "go all in" and trade picks for vets or something. It is a perfect situation to stand pat and/or buy small (again, 3rd round pick for a vet kind of thing). Probably the only way this entire scenario would have to play out would require guys like Zucc and Hayes to be excellent, and you should be wanting to keep those guys for a few years if the team has taken that large a stride forward already with those guys leading the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    The only way it changes is if they're 2005-06 surprising. As in picked to finish near the bottom of the league almost universally and strike gold with garbage, becoming the most unlikely powerhouse in the league.


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    That's exactly what I was thinking of. Granted, that team had an up-and-coming Henrik and a Rangers-record-setting Jagr, but I think we're going to be pleasantly surprised with the on-ice product this year. I think we're going to win to the point of annoyance, and by annoyance I mean "there goes our Jack Hughes lottery pick" annoyance.

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