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Thread: Rangers Re-Sign F Kevin Hayes to 1-Year/$5.125M Extension

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    "He's very very average"

    While scoring 25 goals and scoring 44 points in 76 games despite playing with a 57.3 defensive zone start percentage on a team with a minus-32 goal differential.

    The problem here is you've now twice used hyperbolic language to suggest Hayes is significantly worse than he might be/is. It makes conversation impossible because you're unwilling to deal in reality. We can't debate Hayes' potential value if you're going to dishonestly suggest he's a fourth-line center, or worth like $2M per season. Total failure to launch the moment you do.


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    44 points is nt anything to bag about from a 2nd line center though. Yes the 25 goals is great, but you need more than 44 points coming from the second line. My issue is that he is too inconsistent of a player. He scores in streaks and then disappears. IMO, with the amount of centers this team has and with Chytil and Andersson ready, its either him or Zib that need to be moved, and IMO, Zib is a better player to keep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    I'm not suggesting he's a 4th line center or worth 2 million, I'm saying the Rangers are hoping to get more than 44 points from a 2nd line center which is why he's expendable. If the Rangers drafted properly, and we'll find out this year, one of Chytil or Andersson should be playing 2nd line minutes. And if they drafted well, one of Andersson or Chytil should eventually be getting 3rd line minutes.

    I mean the team was fucking horrible last year. Only one player made it over 50 points, which is a joke -- and part of the collective problem. You keep saying 25 goals and 44 points like that's a good thing. It's not. 44 points is good for 156th in the league. If that's not average, I don't know what is. Considering Hayes got 12 of those points in the final 15 games (7 of which were goals) means he was almost completely useless in terms of scoring for a large majority of the season.

    He has 4 full seasons under his belt and last year was his second worst in terms of point totals. I don't see a magical transformation coming this season. And that's fine. But to suggest everyone needs to be on board with paying a 44 point player who can kill penalties 5 and 6 million because of inflation is absurd. Just because it's a trend doesn't mean it needs to be followed.

    Rangers need to be focused on adding skilled players at every position. They don't have any dynamic talent on the team at all. Continually paying and plugging with mediocrity should not be the course of action even if trends say so. That's why I have a slight issue with the Skjei deal. What has he proven to earn 5 mill? I don't know. That's why I don't see a spot for Hayes beyond this season. Hopefully there are better options for cheaper.
    I think you just summed up some of the the reasons why he only got 1 year and the team did not commit to more.

    If he has a breakout year (more goals more assists), they trade or negotiate again.

    If he has a poor year, they trade and move on.

    So one more kick of the tyres at what is probably the going rate for a center who pots 25 goals on a team with very little to piss-poor finishing outside of Zibanejad (27), Grabner (25) and who else? Hayes (25).

    Don't ask me what happens if he has an in-between year - I don't know, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    I'm not suggesting he's a 4th line center or worth 2 million, I'm saying the Rangers are hoping to get more than 44 points from a 2nd line center which is why he's expendable. If the Rangers drafted properly, and we'll find out this year, one of Chytil or Andersson should be playing 2nd line minutes. And if they drafted well, one of Andersson or Chytil should eventually be getting 3rd line minutes.

    I mean the team was fucking horrible last year. Only one player made it over 50 points, which is a joke -- and part of the collective problem. You keep saying 25 goals and 44 points like that's a good thing. It's not. 44 points is good for 156th in the league. If that's not average, I don't know what is. Considering Hayes got 12 of those points in the final 15 games (7 of which were goals) means he was almost completely useless in terms of scoring for a large majority of the season.

    He has 4 full seasons under his belt and last year was his second worst in terms of point totals. I don't see a magical transformation coming this season. And that's fine. But to suggest everyone needs to be on board with paying a 44 point player who can kill penalties 5 and 6 million because of inflation is absurd. Just because it's a trend doesn't mean it needs to be followed.

    Rangers need to be focused on adding skilled players at every position. They don't have any dynamic talent on the team at all. Continually paying and plugging with mediocrity should not be the course of action even if trends say so. That's why I have a slight issue with the Skjei deal. What has he proven to earn 5 mill? I don't know. That's why I don't see a spot for Hayes beyond this season. Hopefully there are better options for cheaper.
    You need to read between the lines of his point production. Hayes is used in a prominent defensive role. If he got 60% OZ starts and played 3 minutes a game on the PP he'd score more than 44 points, but that's not the role they've used him in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Respecttheblue View Post
    I think you just summed up some of the the reasons why he only got 1 year and the team did not commit to more.

    If he has a breakout year (more goals more assists), they trade or negotiate again.

    If he has a poor year, they trade and move on.

    So one more kick of the tyres at what is probably the going rate for a center who pots 25 goals on a team with very little to piss-poor finishing outside of Zibanejad (27), Grabner (25) and who else? Hayes (25).

    Don't ask me what happens if he has an in-between year - I don't know, lol.
    He should be shot directly into the sun.

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    I hope he has a good year so we can sell high on him


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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Canít be traded for a year after arbitration
    Ahhh. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    I'm not suggesting he's a 4th line center or worth 2 million, I'm saying the Rangers are hoping to get more than 44 points from a 2nd line center which is why he's expendable. If the Rangers drafted properly, and we'll find out this year, one of Chytil or Andersson should be playing 2nd line minutes. And if they drafted well, one of Andersson or Chytil should eventually be getting 3rd line minutes.

    I mean the team was fucking horrible last year. Only one player made it over 50 points, which is a joke -- and part of the collective problem. You keep saying 25 goals and 44 points like that's a good thing. It's not. 44 points is good for 156th in the league. If that's not average, I don't know what is. Considering Hayes got 12 of those points in the final 15 games (7 of which were goals) means he was almost completely useless in terms of scoring for a large majority of the season.

    He has 4 full seasons under his belt and last year was his second worst in terms of point totals. I don't see a magical transformation coming this season. And that's fine. But to suggest everyone needs to be on board with paying a 44 point player who can kill penalties 5 and 6 million because of inflation is absurd. Just because it's a trend doesn't mean it needs to be followed.

    Rangers need to be focused on adding skilled players at every position. They don't have any dynamic talent on the team at all. Continually paying and plugging with mediocrity should not be the course of action even if trends say so. That's why I have a slight issue with the Skjei deal. What has he proven to earn 5 mill? I don't know. That's why I don't see a spot for Hayes beyond this season. Hopefully there are better options for cheaper.
    Agreed. IMO, If anyone is hyping anything up, it those who want to push how "good" Hayes is. If the Rangers felt he were any good, he'd have a 5 year deal. If the league thought he was so good, the Rangers wouldn't have had any problem finding a taker for him. Plenty of teams still could use a "2nd line center". Im guessing here but I feel the issue is that not many around the league feel Hayes is a 2nd line center. They don't want to pay him as such either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    You need to read between the lines of his point production. Hayes is used in a prominent defensive role. If he got 60% OZ starts and played 3 minutes a game on the PP he'd score more than 44 points, but that's not the role they've used him in.
    That's true, but I'm not sure many other teams are going to use him in that role either. So what you see is what you get.
    I do think he'll get his deal somewhere, however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    You need to read between the lines of his point production. Hayes is used in a prominent defensive role. If he got 60% OZ starts and played 3 minutes a game on the PP he'd score more than 44 points, but that's not the role they've used him in.
    I'm not sure how true this is. At any rate, it's impossible to prove.

    I like Hayes, I don't love him, let me start with that. But, there's a good chance he's getting all those D zone starts just because the staff preferred to start more offensive players in the O Zone. I'd also love to see what match ups he's getting. Is he playing against the other team's best players all the time? Maybe he is I don't know. How would he do getting more ice time, but against better defensemen that would likely be starting in their own D zone?

    I'd venture to agree with Josh, that Hayes is like a Jordan Staal. 50 point player on your third line, everyone thinks he'd do more in an offensive role ("He's just playing behind stars!"), but in the top 6...Still a 50ish point player.

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    I also want to add, for anyone saying "He's too inconsistent", well it's usually the same people saying that all the time about every player... but I hope you all realize that players with Hayes' skillset who don't go through dry spells are called Anze Kopitar and are Selke/Hart candidates and make $10 million.

    The reason Hayes is Hayes, Zib is Zib, etc is because they are humans who go through slumps and if they didn't would be P/G players making double what they make.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I also want to add, for anyone saying "He's too inconsistent", well it's usually the same people saying that all the time about every player... but I hope you all realize that players with Hayes' skillset who don't go through dry spells are called Anze Kopitar and are Selke/Hart candidates and make $10 million.

    The reason Hayes is Hayes, Zib is Zib, etc is because they are humans who go through slumps and if they didn't would be P/G players making double what they make.
    Very true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    You need to read between the lines of his point production. Hayes is used in a prominent defensive role. If he got 60% OZ starts and played 3 minutes a game on the PP he'd score more than 44 points, but that's not the role they've used him in.
    If that were the case, why hasn't he ever been on the PP, which obviously needed help/change? I don't think it's as obvious as you try to make it out to be.

    I don't think Hayes would know where to go with the puck if he got an OZ start. I really don't think his point totals are a product of him or his game.

    Much like Hagelin, maybe he sucks on the PP. Maybe he doesn't produce more with more minutes. If you want to go off of goal totals, why wasn't anyone dying to put Grabner on the 1st or 2nd line? PP?

    Some players simply work in certain situations only. I don't see Hayes as a guy that will get the point totals you seem to think are automatic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I also want to add, for anyone saying "He's too inconsistent", well it's usually the same people saying that all the time about every player... but I hope you all realize that players with Hayes' skillset who don't go through dry spells are called Anze Kopitar and are Selke/Hart candidates and make $10 million.

    The reason Hayes is Hayes, Zib is Zib, etc is because they are humans who go through slumps and if they didn't would be P/G players making double what they make.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Pete again.

    What kind of world am I living in when I find myself regularly agreeing with you?

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    i dont mind Hayes. Remember when he was like 5 pct on faceoffs when he first came here and when he gained the offensive zone all alone and had no idea what to do with the puck?

    i think he's developed nicely and would be a good fit on another team for more assets. i think he gets a knock due to his size that he's not more physical. hopefully he continues the play from the end of last year and we sell high on him.

    p.s. he so looks like carl spagler from caddyshack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    If that were the case, why hasn't he ever been on the PP, which obviously needed help/change? I don't think it's as obvious as you try to make it out to be.

    I don't think Hayes would know where to go with the puck if he got an OZ start. I really don't think his point totals are a product of him or his game.

    Much like Hagelin, maybe he sucks on the PP. Maybe he doesn't produce more with more minutes. If you want to go off of goal totals, why wasn't anyone dying to put Grabner on the 1st or 2nd line? PP?

    Some players simply work in certain situations only. I don't see Hayes as a guy that will get the point totals you seem to think are automatic.
    Clearly the Rangers agree with this summarization of Hayes or they would have signed him long term.

    I can't believe I actually read that the main difference between Hayes and Kopitar is just a matter of consistency, like that has no bearing on a better skillset to achieve that level of consistency, and people actually buy that nonsense.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slobberknocker View Post
    i dont mind Hayes. Remember when he was like 5 pct on faceoffs when he first came here and when he gained the offensive zone all alone and had no idea what to do with the puck?

    i think he's developed nicely and would be a good fit on another team for more assets. i think he gets a knock due to his size that he's not more physical. hopefully he continues the play from the end of last year and we sell high on him.

    p.s. he so looks like carl spagler from caddyshack.
    It's hardly a knock given how often he has the puck. Asking him to become more of a banger wouldn't only risk more injury but worsen his stat line by making him play a role he's not designed for. His strength comes WITH the puck, not without.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I also want to add, for anyone saying "He's too inconsistent", well it's usually the same people saying that all the time about every player... but I hope you all realize that players with Hayes' skillset who don't go through dry spells are called Anze Kopitar and are Selke/Hart candidates and make $10 million.

    The reason Hayes is Hayes, Zib is Zib, etc is because they are humans who go through slumps and if they didn't would be P/G players making double what they make.
    I think he is inconsistent, but I don't say it about every player. I don't hate the guy, but he will be visible for a couple of games, then be completely invisible. I agree that players go through slumps, but he is one of those guys that when he is in a slump, he is terrible. His play reminds me too much of Duby, where he holds onto the puck for too long. This is a make or break season for him, IMO. He has gone up and down wit his scoring, while 25 goals is great, as a 2nd line center and having only 19 assists, that is an issue, IMO.

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    Every player who isn't a point per game is "inconsistent". It's such a meaningless buzzword. If they were consistent, they'd be high-scoring superstars.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    I think he is inconsistent, but I don't say it about every player. I don't hate the guy, but he will be visible for a couple of games, then be completely invisible. I agree that players go through slumps, but he is one of those guys that when he is in a slump, he is terrible. His play reminds me too much of Duby, where he holds onto the puck for too long. This is a make or break season for him, IMO. He has gone up and down wit his scoring, while 25 goals is great, as a 2nd line center and having only 19 assists, that is an issue, IMO.
    Again, players with Hayes' skillset who don't go through dry spells are called Anze Kopitar and are Selke/Hart candidates and make $10 million.

    The reason Hayes is Hayes, Zib is Zib, etc is because they are humans who go through slumps and if they didn't would be P/G players making double what they make.

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    It is not a slump if their skill set isn't as good. The reason Hayes is Hayes and not Kopitar is because Hayes does not have skills equivalent to Kopitar. Same reason Dominic Moore isn't Crosby.

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