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Thread: WSH Re-Sign F Tom Wilson to 6-Year/$31.02M Extension; $5.17M AAV

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc View Post
    Someone would choose a career-high 35 points winger who played on the same line as Ovechkin (who scored 50 goals) before Hayes?

    Im sorry, but thats just funny.
    I didn't say that. I said I'd rather give Wilson that contract than pay Hayes what he's asking. I've also explained why I don't think it's as laughable as many think from a Caps perspective, even though it's obviously a risk. We haven't really discussed it from a Rangers perspective, but IMO it doesn't sound like a great idea to tie down Hayes to a long term deal with the current crop of young centers coming through.
    As of now it appears both the Rangers and Capitals management agrees with me.
    Last edited by Gravesy; 07-30-2018 at 08:26 AM.

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    im much happier the caps made that deal with Wilson than we had with Hayes.
    Acqua in bocca

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    Quote Originally Posted by Respecttheblue View Post
    IMO I thought he was a huge difference-maker in the SCF -- the physical presence and impact on Vegas was a standout to me. That he can play with top caliber players like Ovi is a huge plus, otherwise he wouldn't see a fraction of this money.
    I don't think it's that he can play with those guys.

    It's that those guys are so good they can carry a goon. I will say that Wilson's game helps give Ovi and Kuznetsov some extra space, so it's worked, but that's not because of any skillset that Wilson has. All he does, essentially, is allow those two guys to play 4v4.

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    Do you really believe the Caps have agreed to this deal with your run of the mill bruiser? That he’s interchangeable on that line with any regular big and tough guys?
    Of course Wilson is a pretty unique player in this league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Do you really believe the Caps have agreed to this deal with your run of the mill bruiser?
    Yes.

    Why would you give Wilson $5 million when you can give, say, Chris Stewart or Brandon Tanev $1.5 to do the exact same thing.
    Last edited by Future; 08-01-2018 at 04:04 PM.

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    I would not of made this deal but I think the guy brings something to their lineup that is worth more than what the stats indicate. Will they regret it maybe, will other teams regret locking guys up long term imo yes. I think his value transcends the numbers. Regardless unless you're a Caps fan he's a pos.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Yes.

    Why would you give Wilson $5 million when you can give, say, Chris Stewart or Brandon Tanev $1.5 to do the exact same thing.
    Let’s agree to vehemently disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Do you really believe the Caps have agreed to this deal with your run of the mill bruiser? That he’s interchangeable on that line with any regular big and tough guys?
    Of course Wilson is a pretty unique player in this league.
    I think most can agree this contract looks drastically different following the cup.
    4x4 was considered steep in April.
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  9. #29
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    I agree it’s a big contract. I’ve already said there’s a chance his playoff performance might have been weighted too heavily.
    I don’t agree Wilson is a bog standard tough guy who could be easily replaced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I agree it’s a big contract. I’ve already said there’s a chance his playoff performance might have been weighted too heavily.
    I don’t agree Wilson is a bog standard tough guy who could be easily replaced.
    I don't think he's easy to replace.

    But I don't think he will sustain play remotely close to what he's done, in years 4, 5 and 6.

    Callahan, Dubinsky, Lucic, Shaw. The body goes, the cap hit doesnt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I agree it’s a big contract. I’ve already said there’s a chance his playoff performance might have been weighted too heavily.
    I don’t agree Wilson is a bog standard tough guy who could be easily replaced.
    I'm genuinely asking, what are you basing that on? The guy has no skill that isn't replicated by another dozen players around the league.

    Would you say that Nic Deslauriers is hard to replace? Brandon Tanev? Auston Watson? Abdelkader? Anyone with the last name Ritchie? They can all give a big hit, score 15, and create space for talented players by just driving the net.

    Physically, Wilson probably has the chops to be better than any of them, but he hasn't shown to be distinct from any of these other guys other than playing on a line with two of probably the top-10 players in the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Yes.

    Why would you give Wilson $5 million when you can give, say, Chris Stewart or Brandon Tanev $1.5 to do the exact same thing.
    Nah, he's better than both. By miles. Unlike the majority of (what's left of) his counterparts, he can actually play. He's just not worth anywhere near what they just paid him. It's all about relative value, and relatively speaking, opening space (while he can) for Ovechkin and Kuznetsov isn't worth $5M+ a year. Not when someone—like those you mentioned—can do a similar job (though not nearly as good) for significantly less per year.

    This is a long way of saying Wilson is a good player, he's just not the kind of guy you tie yourself to for six years at $5M plus. It's Lucic/EDM all over again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I don't think he's easy to replace.

    But I don't think he will sustain play remotely close to what he's done, in years 4, 5 and 6.

    Callahan, Dubinsky, Lucic, Shaw. The body goes, the cap hit doesnt.
    I'm not even sure in years two and three. This mojo can run out quick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    I'm genuinely asking, what are you basing that on? The guy has no skill that isn't replicated by another dozen players around the league.

    Would you say that Nic Deslauriers is hard to replace? Brandon Tanev? Auston Watson? Abdelkader? Anyone with the last name Ritchie? They can all give a big hit, score 15, and create space for talented players by just driving the net.

    Physically, Wilson probably has the chops to be better than any of them, but he hasn't shown to be distinct from any of these other guys other than playing on a line with two of probably the top-10 players in the league.
    The thing that separates him is that, unlike those guys, he's a magnet for controversey. He's new era Avery, but dirty. It's not just the big hit, but the non-suspension that follows, which enrages his peers and gets them off their game during play when they get so frustrated with trying to fuck him up that they forget about what's happening with the puck. We saw this against Vegas, for example.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Nah, he's better than both. By miles. Unlike the majority of (what's left of) his counterparts, he can actually play.
    Well it's this basically.
    Wilson is a deceptively quick straight line skater. He's edgework is good for a massive unit. He's a decent passer of the puck and sees the ice pretty well. He's good in the d-zone. He's basically a good support player for those two players, in addition to the physical play, the pest factor and creating space.
    At the risk of being overly hypothetical, in an alternative universe where Trotz has Tanev instead of Wilson on his roster there is, in my opinion, absolutely no chance he plays him on that 1st line in the playoffs.

    Worth keeping in mind that Wilson is only 24. I totally agree the deal is risky, and there's a chance it's going to look bad for the last couple of years, but it's not like they're going to have a 33 year old Tom Wilson lumbering around the ice being paid 5m a year for the privilege.

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    [QUOTE=Phil in Absentia;936356]Nah, he's better than both. By miles. Unlike the majority of (what's left of) his counterparts, he can actually play. He's just not worth anywhere near what they just paid him. It's all about relative value, and relatively speaking, opening space (while he can) for Ovechkin and Kuznetsov isn't worth $5M+ a year. Not when someone—like those you mentioned—can do a similar job (though not nearly as good) for significantly less per year.
    G/60
    Wilson - .67
    Deslaurier - .89
    Tanev - .62

    Deslaurier and Tanev don't play with Ovi/Kuz or even Backstrom. Wilson is a better skater but not a much better player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    I'm not even sure in years two and three. This mojo can run out quick.

    The thing that separates him is that, unlike those guys, he's a magnet for controversey. He's new era Avery, but dirty. It's not just the big hit, but the non-suspension that follows, which enrages his peers and gets them off their game during play when they get so frustrated with trying to fuck him up that they forget about what's happening with the puck. We saw this against Vegas, for example.
    This is all bad. Vegas' problem is that they had half the talent of Washington, not that they were bothered by Wilson.

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    But that’s missing the point by a fucking mile.
    He’s obviously not playing on the 1st line or being paid that kind of money based on his ability to produce G/60.

  17. #37
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    /60 might be the most useless stat out there. More than even +/-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    /60 might be the most useless stat out there. More than even +/-
    why? It shows how everyone would be producing with the same icetime. Isn't that a good stat to use when comparing players?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc View Post
    why? It shows how everyone would be producing with the same icetime. Isn't that a good stat to use when comparing players?
    No. Because when you're a 20 minute a night top line player, those 20 minutes are against a different Calibre player and in different situations than a 12 minute a night player.

    There are a thousand variables not taken into account. Maybe Hayes wouldn't score any more points if he played 20 minutes because he's an out of shape fuck and would be more tired. Who knows?

    In no world does it make sense to say "If this 12 minute player played 60 he'd score more than if this 20 minute player played 60," which is essentially what that stat compares.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    But that’s missing the point by a fucking mile.
    He’s obviously not playing on the 1st line or being paid that kind of money based on his ability to produce G/60.
    THEN HE'S COMPLETELY REPLACEABLE.

    lol, anyone can be a thumper on any line.

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