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Thread: Rangers, Kravtsov Agree to Let Him Play Final Year in KHL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Start with the premise that there is no need for him to play for the Rangers this year and I'm not sure getting some games in Hartford late is better than getting more playoff experience against good teams in the KHL.

    So, if Traktor is not among the better teams and they trade him to a team that may go the distance, that is better than a few games on a new team on the other side of the world.

    He'll be here in the spring/summer of 2019 permanently. Let the kid be an 18 y/o living home (near family) in his native country for one last hockey season. He can focus on hockey and not a new language, getting acclimated, meeting new people, and all things that comes with a complete culture change.
    How is the experience valuable if he were unlikely to play? SKA, CSKA, etc. aren't going to use a 19-year-old in their top six the way Chelyabinsk should this season. It makes more sense to just get him over to Hartford where he can focus on the game. I don't think he cares about the lifestyle stuff. The kid already understands a good amount of English which is irrelevant to an extent. Panarin still uses a translator. He's doing just fine.

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    Since there was talk of him not returning to the KHL at all, I'd assume they got some sort of guarantee that he'd stay with Traktor and get good minutes.

    If Traktor has a shitty start to the season can he buyout his contract half way through the year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    How is the experience valuable if he were unlikely to play? SKA, CSKA, etc. aren't going to use a 19-year-old in their top six the way Chelyabinsk should this season. It makes more sense to just get him over to Hartford where he can focus on the game. I don't think he cares about the lifestyle stuff. The kid already understands a good amount of English which is irrelevant to an extent. Panarin still uses a translator. He's doing just fine.
    To simplify my point, a deep run in the KHL playoffs will be better for his overall development than 10 or so games on an established Hartford team halfway across the world.

    Ideally Chelyabinsk is better, as many anticipate, and he gets a long playoff run and top minutes. If a top team trades for him, I doubt it will be to bury him on the bench. The chance to win minutes(prove himself) against the best competition, will reveal more about the player. Plus, it will provide another valuable experience w/o him needing to move halfway across the globe.

    You are underestimating the short term distraction a permanent move from Russia to here will be for an 18 y/o. Not speaking the language, having a place, knowing anybody or the any surroundings is a lot to deal with initially.

    Panarin was a full-on adult and seasoned player when he came over. He had a full off season to prepare and adjust. It is a bad comparison. Besides, the less he uses a translator the better.

    Think of it this way. The Rangers view this kid as the 3rd best forward available in this strong draft and a better prospect than Wahlstrom, Bouchard and Dobson. That means this kid is may be our highest graded prospect/investment we develop. Let's not fuck him up the way Edm did with Yakapov. He was rushed over, it was admitted first hand.

    We have a chance to model Kuz's development and we are proceeding that way. Let him stay the season in Russia, there is nothing to think about. When his KHL season is over, if he is healthy and 100% game, bring him over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    To simplify my point, a deep run in the KHL playoffs will be better for his overall development than 10 or so games on an established Hartford team halfway across the world.

    Ideally Chelyabinsk is better, as many anticipate, and he gets a long playoff run and top minutes. If a top team trades for him, I doubt it will be to bury him on the bench. The chance to win minutes(prove himself) against the best competition, will reveal more about the player. Plus, it will provide another valuable experience w/o him needing to move halfway across the globe.

    You are underestimating the short term distraction a permanent move from Russia to here will be for an 18 y/o. Not speaking the language, having a place, knowing anybody or the any surroundings is a lot to deal with initially.

    Panarin was a full-on adult and seasoned player when he came over. He had a full off season to prepare and adjust. It is a bad comparison. Besides, the less he uses a translator the better.

    Think of it this way. The Rangers view this kid as the 3rd best forward available in this strong draft and a better prospect than Wahlstrom, Bouchard and Dobson. That means this kid is may be our highest graded prospect/investment we develop. Let's not fuck him up the way Edm did with Yakapov. He was rushed over, it was admitted first hand.

    We have a chance to model Kuz's development and we are proceeding that way. Let him stay the season in Russia, there is nothing to think about. When his KHL season is over, if he is healthy and 100% game, bring him over.
    Yakapov came through the CHL.

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    Hell they think he is better than Zadina and Tkachuk. Let's protect this investment. The point may be moot though. He will likely be playing in the playoffs in the KHL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Yakapov came through the CHL.
    Ah true, but he was not ready and needed time to grow and adjust. He'd be a better player if he was drafted 5th OA and started in the AHL. Many who are close to the situation agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    To simplify my point, a deep run in the KHL playoffs will be better for his overall development than 10 or so games on an established Hartford team halfway across the world.

    Ideally Chelyabinsk is better, as many anticipate, and he gets a long playoff run and top minutes. If a top team trades for him, I doubt it will be to bury him on the bench. The chance to win minutes(prove himself) against the best competition, will reveal more about the player. Plus, it will provide another valuable experience w/o him needing to move halfway across the globe.
    That's just not how the KHL normally works. You don't see players Kravtsov's age getting the minutes he gets. Especially not during the playoffs. Chelyabinsk did it. Doesn't mean teams like CSKA and SKA will. They value older and more loyal players.

    You are underestimating the short term distraction a permanent move from Russia to here will be for an 18 y/o. Not speaking the language, having a place, knowing anybody or the any surroundings is a lot to deal with initially.

    Panarin was a full-on adult and seasoned player when he came over. He had a full off season to prepare and adjust. It is a bad comparison. Besides, the less he uses a translator the better.
    I'm really not. Some of these European players are used to travel and being away. I don't know where this perception comes from that all these European players need to be coddled. He's traveled all over Asia and Europe. He went to play for a team 4,600 miles from home as a teenager. He wants to come over. He's not some kid worried about fitting in at college.

    Panarin isn't a bad example. He's proof that language isn't as big of a deal as some make it out to be. He's not meant to be an age comparison.

    Think of it this way. The Rangers view this kid as the 3rd best forward available in this strong draft and a better prospect than Wahlstrom, Bouchard and Dobson. That means this kid is may be our highest graded prospect/investment we develop. Let's not fuck him up the way Edm did with Yakapov. He was rushed over, it was admitted first hand.

    We have a chance to model Kuz's development and we are proceeding that way. Let him stay the season in Russia, there is nothing to think about. When his KHL season is over, if he is healthy and 100% game, bring him over.
    Yakupov is irrelevant. He had already come to the US.

    Kuznetsov chose to stay longer. Kravstov has literally said he wants to come over sooner. I don't get how it's rushing to do what he wants and also have him in the AHL. He'll get a year in Russia. That's the best option. He doesn't need more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Ah true, but he was not ready and needed time to grow and adjust. He'd be a better player if he was drafted 5th OA and started in the AHL. Many who are close to the situation agree.
    In retrospect. Yakupov had 2 years in the OHL before he was drafted. He was the consensus first overall. There were a myriad of reasons for Yakupov's failures among them being a complete lack of hockey intelligence on his part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    I don't know where this perception comes from that all these European players need to be coddled.
    To be precise I'm not saying, "all these Euros" or "coddle". I am talking about one 18 y/o Russian who plays plays at home and has already agreed with his family and the Rangers to play in the KHL. Once the season is done, bring him here. Throw him to the wolves at 19 y/o, next season. If he does well in Camp, MSG it is. That is hardly coddling.

    Not rushing a kid in his draft year is not atypical and hardly conservative. McDavid, Eichel, Dahlin, Matthews are super rare exceptions. KHL playoffs (men!) make for great experience. He's in a good spot with Traktor. If they fall apart, a trade to a team that will likely give him 3rd line duties at worse, will be fine. If SKA, he'll meet his future mates. Let him be a kid at home in his home country one last year.

    Yakupov is irrelevant. He had already come to the US.
    He is more relevant as an 18 y/o F with high expectations who was rushed even though he was not ready to play in the NHL. It is the opinion of Edm insiders and other close observers that Nail should have started in the A.

    Kuznetsov chose to stay longer. Kravstov has literally said he wants to come over sooner. I don't get how it's rushing to do what he wants
    And like Kuz he's gonna play for Traktor his draft year. We are talking past each other. All I was saying is KHL playoff run is nothing to lament, regarding development. Also not to waste a year of his ELC having him play the end of the year here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    To be precise I'm not saying, "all these Euros" or "coddle". I am talking about one 18 y/o Russian who plays plays at home and has already agreed with his family and the Rangers to play in the KHL. Once the season is done, bring him here. Throw him to the wolves at 19 y/o, next season. If he does well in Camp, MSG it is. That is hardly coddling.

    Not rushing a kid in his draft year is not atypical and hardly conservative. McDavid, Eichel, Dahlin, Matthews are super rare exceptions. KHL playoffs (men!) make for great experience. He's in a good spot with Traktor. If they fall apart, a trade to a team that will likely give him 3rd line duties at worse, will be fine. If SKA, he'll meet his future mates. Let him be a kid at home in his home country one last year.



    He is more relevant as an 18 y/o F with high expectations who was rushed even though he was not ready to play in the NHL. It is the opinion of Edm insiders and other close observers that Nail should have started in the A.



    And like Kuz he's gonna play for Traktor his draft year. We are talking past each other. All I was saying is KHL playoff run is nothing to lament, regarding development. Also that I don't want to waste a year of his ELC having him play the end of the year here.
    Playing in Hartford doesn't burn a year off his ELC if he's on an ATO. I also don't see how having him come to over after the KHL is rushing him. No one is saying he should be in the NHL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    In retrospect. Yakupov had 2 years in the OHL before he was drafted. He was the consensus first overall. There were a myriad of reasons for Yakupov's failures among them being a complete lack of hockey intelligence on his part.
    True he struggled with the mental game immediately. Yet, it is striking to hear folks say being thrown into the NHL when he wasn't prepared/ready hurt him.

    That is my angle. There is no reason to take any risks with him at 18, or pine to rush him here to get into a few meaningless games. Do it right. Get him ready to come over early for the following season. Once his season ends, begin helping him plan and execute his move. Do not concern him about it one minute sooner. No need for distractions, believe me it is a big distraction.

    You essentially asked what gives people these perspectives. For me it is raising two children is a stable household and still knowing my now 20 y/o boy would not have adjusted well to life in Russia at his profession. Helping other family members raise their kids. Years of wisdom, I guess. There are exceptions, but most 18y/o boys are still physically and mentally immature and can use another year or so of grooming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    Playing in Hartford doesn't burn a year off his ELC if he's on an ATO. I also don't see how having him come to over after the KHL is rushing him. No one is saying he should be in the NHL.
    I realize, that was just directed at those thinking getting him a few games with the Rangers would be good. It seemed that was mentioned.

    We agree, he can come over once his season is done. Hoping his playoff ends quickly so we can get him on a plane asap for a few bogus Hartford games is a waste of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    True he struggled with the mental game immediately. Yet, it is striking to hear folks say being thrown into the NHL when he wasn't prepared/ready hurt him.

    That is my angle. There is no reason to take any risks with him at 18, or pine to rush him here to get into a few meaningless games. Do it right. Get him ready to come over early for the following season. Once his season ends, begin helping him plan and execute his move. Do not concern him about it one minute sooner. No need for distractions, believe me it is a big distraction.

    You essentially asked what gives people these perspectives. For me it is raising two children is a stable household and still knowing my now 20 y/o boy would not have adjusted well to life in Russia at his profession. Helping other family members raise their kids. Years of wisdom, I guess. There are exceptions, but most 18y/o boys are still physically and mentally immature and can use another year or so of grooming.
    No one is concerning Kravtsov with anything. He's going back to the KHL. This is just a bunch of people talking on a message board that has no effect on the actual real life player.

    And again, he was born 4,500 miles away from where Traktor plays. High level athletes don't grow up normally and can't be compare to regular teenagers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    I realize, that was just directed at those thinking getting him a few games with the Rangers would be good. It seemed that was mentioned.

    We agree, he can come over once his season is done. Hoping his playoff ends quickly so we can get him on a plane asap for a few bogus Hartford games is a waste of time.
    Why then, do junior players do it all the time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    No one is concerning Kravtsov with anything. He's going back to the KHL. This is just a bunch of people talking on a message board that has no effect on the actual real life player.

    And again, he was born 4,500 miles away from where Traktor plays. High level athletes don't grow up normally and can't be compare to regular teenagers.
    His mom moved with him to Chelyabinsk. So he was not a young man sent into the world alone. Still, he's 18 and this will hopefully be a great transition year to the big world.

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    As far as I understand it this move was made primarily because they didn't want to risk a drawn out arbitration period with the KHL.
    Both the player and the Rangers wanted him to come straight away, and would be here now if they felt sure it could be solved in a timely fashion.

    In other words, it doesn't seem like this was done with his development in mind.

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    According to Brooks the khl was going to file a law suit that would have held him up from playing anywhere for months. So with his development in mind it was decided it wouldn’t be good for him not to be playing for months even most of the seasons. With that being the scenario the rangers had no choice but to send him back

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    What diff does it make that this kid is going to Russia? Our other one is going to Boston.
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    I would have liked to get the show on the road in terms of the North Americanization of this kid. Also, I question how much he develops in Russia when he knows he's a lame duck and is looking ahead to the following year. In any event, it doesn't look like we had a choice in this matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    According to Brooks the khl was going to file a law suit that would have held him up from playing anywhere for months. So with his development in mind it was decided it wouldn’t be good for him not to be playing for months even most of the seasons. With that being the scenario the rangers had no choice but to send him back
    Correct, but it wasn't what they wanted. They didn't sit down, look at all the options and decide it was best for the players development to go back to Russia for a year. They wanted him to come here immediately, but since they couldn't be sure the KHL wouldn't throw up a stinker they had to send him there.
    I have no problem with it, in fact I think it's probably a good decision. He gets to play at a high competitive level against men for another year. If his progression continues it's a very good chance he'll be ready for the team next season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sod16 View Post
    Also, I question how much he develops in Russia when he knows he's a lame duck and is looking ahead to the following year.
    This is my only concern. Traktor obviously won't invest as much in him as they would if he was signed up for another 4 years. If he's good enough he'll play. But they're probably not going to show the sort of patience you'd might have with an up and coming prospect you're developing for the long term. We'll just have to hope he can keep his form from the playoffs going and make himself undroppable.
    Last edited by Gravesy; 07-15-2018 at 04:44 AM.

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