Question wasn't directed at yourself, perhaps read between the lines.Originally Posted by josh
There were 32 goaltenders who started at lest 1/2 their teams games last season, (40).
Of those 32....
Lundy
GAA- 24th
Save%- 16th
When you take games played to 50, (true starters)...there were 22
Lundy
GAA- 17th
Save %- 14th
That's a stretch to call that middle of the pack
There are 22 teams?
Lias Andersson for #AJT2019
Hmmmmm, "true starters". Carey Price and Matt Murray both played 49 games. I'd call them true starters. That would put Hank 14th out of 24, with Hank facing the 2nd most high danger chances out of those 24.
Cool, thx
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No problem. It really wasn't nessasary to apologize but I do appreciate it.
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Let's just emphasize this, and move on.
He had a down year, inconsistent play, with a ton of things factoring into the poor performance. He's on the backend of his career, and you can assume he wont put up the numbers he did 10 years ago. That said, he still had some great games, and can still steal a game for a team here and there. He can certainly keep the team competitive.
Lias Andersson for #AJT2019
GAA is irrelevant here considering the shot volume he faced. Of course his GAA is higher, than, say, Tukka Rask, when he faced 500 more shots on the season.
And 16th out of 32 is firmly middle of the pack. I mean, we can keep skewing sample size one way or another to show whatever we want. He's 36th out of 95 if you just include all goalies and he's #3 in sv% among goalies who played 15 games from 10/8 to 1/20.
You have to use an extremely limited sample (50 games leaves out Carey Price, Corey Schneider, Matt Murray, and whichever of Darling/Ward you want to call the #1 in Carolina, not to mention MAF and Raanta) to take Henrik out of the direct middle of the pack, and even then, he's in the middle third.
GAA references shots per game, not sure what season totals have to do with it.
And one point, If we are to point to the inexcusable defense in front of him last season, (as we should).
Does it negate the years where he played behind some the most defensive minded teams in the NHL (Torts era)?
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For what it's worth, I just read the article about how Buffalo is shaping up their team. They said they had 32.7 SAA and were 10th in the league.
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GAA has nothing to do with shots. Its goal against per 60 minutes.
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GAA is...goals against? lol. My point is that GAA is inflated by high shot totals, its not always indicative of goalie play. If a goalie faces 50 shots and has a .90 sv%, he's got a 5 GAA, but a .90 sv% at 20 shots is just 2 GAA. Over the course of a season, that heavily favors the goalie facing fewer shots, even though their play is the same. That's why Hank had a higher sv% but lower GAA than a whole bunch of goalies (Khudobin, Howard, Murray, Schneider, Allen).
I don't know what you mean "negate the years." He was the best goalie in the world when he had a strong defense in front of him and is still good with a bottom-3 defense in front of him. I don't buy for one second that his numbers were inflated by the Torts system, he made the Torts system work. It's not like he was making 15-save shutouts, he still faced 28.5 shots per game under Torts while having to react to react to all the blocked shots and constant defending. Plus, how many pucks went in off of fucking Jason Strudwick?
So I don't particularly understand your question, but Hell no is my answer anyways lol.
not worried about hankie. he'll come into camp in tip top shape, the guys a true pro.
more worried about what's in front of him and our backup being able to shelter him some with strong play.
Acqua in bocca
I don't know how you guys come up with all the hockey metrics so fast!! LOL It's like you guys swallowed the freakin' hockey almanac!!! I love it though....
Thing is this though, fellas....and maybe I'm off base here; and I'm thinking in a "fast forward" kind of manner:
{dream sequence}
It's 2 Years down the road and let's just say for example a few of these guys have been dealt off already...Zucc, Zibby, Vesey, Hayes...etc.
We've re-stocked the shelves and put together some good talent both on the ice and in the farm system...(I know...very positive thinking here)
Now it's time to figure out what to do in net.
What we do over the next 2 seasons will impact how and where we go when we get to that point. Now flashback to present day....{end Dream sequence}
Hank is most likely not going to be an option at this age, and I know there's a lot more that's going to develop along the way I'm sure.
Is the goaltending position as important as it was when Hank signed that contract?
Did the Rangers over value the goaltending position with Hank's deal?
Can a regular playoff caliber goalie be good enough to contend for a Stanley Cup?
Does this team need a World Class, top ranked goalie to win it all?
Can our salary dollar be more wisely spent on a another position?
Just a few opinion questions. I like the stats, but I love the ideas that come out playing armchair GM. I definitely feel the stats have their place, but do they tell the whole story?
I would say...
Is the goaltending position as important as it was when Hank signed that contract? - No, not if Quinn can establish a defensive strucutre
Did the Rangers over value the goaltending position with Hank's deal? - Yes
Can a regular playoff caliber goalie be good enough to contend for a Stanley Cup? - Yes, but define "playoff calibre"
Does this team need a World Class, top ranked goalie to win it all? - No
Can our salary dollar be more wisely spent on a another position? - Yes
Having said all that, I don't think that Hank's cap number is problematic at this point. My only concern with Hank is that he needs to learn how to be successful playing 50, rather than 65 games. B/c he can still be very good at 38 (Luongo) but he's not going to be able to carry the load.
(general comments, not directed at anyone in particular)
Anyone who thinks that Lundqvist's play hasn't diminished from it's peak is having their fandom confuse their analysis. He is not longer a top 5 goalie but is certainly still capable. Lundqvist is better suited for a contender than screaming at teammates for their defensive lases. Either the Rangers get better, Lundqvist changes his attitude, or the situation wears him out and he agrees to waive his NMC for certain teams. Increasingly he is a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. I admire his loyalty to the Rangers, his commitment to the franchise and his craft, and his years of quality play, but this rebuilding team is going to be an awkward fit for him - especially with how many games we are going to lose this year.
"We're all f*cked. It helps to remember that." - George Carlin
"How many Cups you've got?" - Esa Tikkanen
"Hatred can keep you warm when you run out of liquor" - Ray Ratto, Dan Patrick show 1/20/2017
I don't get people complaining about Lundqvist yelling at defensemen. This is his job, and just like any of us, if someone you work with screws up and doesn't do their job, we say something to them. I have no problem with him yelling at another player. It shows he still cares about the team and winning.While his play has dropped, IMO, with a slightly better defense in front of him, he is capable of winning a championship here.
I think its a generational thing. I have no issue with it, but, "stick and stones may break my bones, but words to 100x worse" is the new saying.
Lias Andersson for #AJT2019
because it's focusing on other people's mistakes instead of what he could have done to stop the goal. and it is showing up teammates. neither is a good look.
"We're all f*cked. It helps to remember that." - George Carlin
"How many Cups you've got?" - Esa Tikkanen
"Hatred can keep you warm when you run out of liquor" - Ray Ratto, Dan Patrick show 1/20/2017
Very well said and well-reasoned. The beauty is that waiving one's NMC is a dynamic question. If we or he finds he can't handle the losing productively, a new conversation can happen.
It could happen during the season or in the off season. Maybe a Cup contender or just a team on the upswing finds their biggest weakness is in goal. Or their goalie has a season ending injury. Basically, if it is not working out well here, everyone gets to reassess.
The worst outcome is Hank drops off a cliff and we can't give him away. Doubt that. More likely is that Hank is able to adjust his expectations enough to manage to productively deal with reality.
Right, plus it is not really his job. That is the coaches job. Besides, Hank is emotional and is not the most objective person to immediately critique a goal or bad play. And if he does it too much, he loses his impact or worse.
There is a time and place for everything. If he can help by pointing out where a Dman should be or how he should react to a situation, that is fine. If someone needs a kick in the ass because of effort or consistently making the same mistake, the team can live with it. Beyond that he'll have to be positive about doing his job and leave most of the criticism for the coaches. Quinn is an activist D coach anyway.
Last edited by Giacomin; 07-11-2018 at 12:21 PM.
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