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Thread: What to do with The King?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Squirt Division CBrowningPI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodka Drunkenski View Post
    Yawn
    Typical

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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    That's not quite fair. Hank has been pretty inconsistent in his own right. The team has been really bad and it's not all Hank's fault but he certainly hasn't been very good.
    Gee, I thought I took it easy on him, based on his rant.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  3. #43
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    BIG qualifying statement here: I'm not overly familiar with how the stats corroborate or refute this assertion. But, I will say this: we always like to talk on here about the "eye test," and the change in Hank's style over the years is palpable. Once upon a time his big claim to fame was his poise, positioning and economical movement. He made every save look easy. One crisp, clean move to go butterfly and make the stop. I don't think I saw him throw a two-pad stack in his first 7-8 years in the league.

    Nowadays, however, he works A LOT harder to make the save. A lot of twitchy, flailing movement. A lot of diving, sprawling, and a general overall lesser lack of control. Every save looks difficult. I don't know, maybe as his reaction has naturally slowed he went buck-wild with getting in tip-top shape so that he could compensate with all athleticism. He still makes the difficult save (mostly) but he no longer looks comfortable doing it. He used to control the shot, now he reacts to it almost belatedly.

    I'm not sure how else to describe it; I can't really put my finger on it. Maybe more goaltending theory-savvy people can weigh in and (dis)agree. But just on personal observation, he looks way less in control.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    How is that league average? Over the last three seasons Lundqvist has faced the second most shots against in the league. The only goaltender to face more is Cam Talbot. Facing 171 more shots in 11 more games played. Devan Dubnyk is the third goaltender but has faced 190 fewer shots in 7 more games played than Lundqvist. Tell me how that's league average.
    Total shots don’t tell the story compared to shots per game.

    Anybody have that info? I really don’t know what they are


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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    Total shots don’t tell the story compared to shots per game.

    Anybody have that info? I really don’t know what they are


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    Read a couple posts before, Jay.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    Current statistics literally tell you how many shots he's facing and that it's that much more than everyone else. You're refusing to believe that because that's what NHL Network says. Go to NHL.com. Look at the stats. Do the math to figure out the more complicated numbers if it pleases. Everything says that he has his work cut out for him.

    If you can find me a statistic on softies I'd be happy to consider it. The fact of the matter is, Lundqvist is winning more games for this team than he's losing them. That's been the case and that's always been the case. You can look up how he performs in terms of shot danger statistics. Where Lundqvist currently struggles statistically is with mid danger shots, meaning shots from the slot. Maybe that's telling of the Rangers needing to defend a little bit better.

    You don't know what you've got until it's gone I guess.
    We must not forget that he is THE highest paid goaltender in the World. You cannot say we're getting are money's worth. Arizona certainly can.

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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBrowningPI View Post
    We must not forget that he is THE highest paid goaltender in the World. You cannot say we're getting are money's worth. Arizona certainly can.

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    AAV? Incorrect. That title belongs to Carey Price.


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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Play him 40 games and let him get some rest.

    The real work starts 2019-20 season.
    I'm an advocate for this as well. A semi-sabbatical and then come back strong in 2019-2020 for a competitive playoff run.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    AAV? Incorrect. That title belongs to Carey Price.


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    I didn't know that. Ok, 2nd?

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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    No he certainly does not.
    He isn't better than Rinne, Hellebuyck, Vasilevsky, Holtby or Fleury. Whether he's an upgrade on Murray is debatable.
    In the 2nd tier of contenders he isn't better than Quick and Jones. Might be an upgrade on Rask and as you say Andersson.
    Vasilevsky looked like Tampa’s Achilles heel in the playoffs to me. Good fit, IMO, but they already took on a lot of expensive Rangers. I doubt they have space.

    Hank is staying here appears to be the forecast until his personal weather changes and/or some team has ample space and need.
    If n ya gots jowls, they might as well be furry ones.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Respecttheblue View Post
    Vasilevsky looked like Tampa’s Achilles heel in the playoffs to me.
    I don't think that's accurate. He was excellent against the Bruins and was instrumental in their 3 wins against the Caps when they were outplayed, at times comprehensively, and still came out with the win. Without him it's doubtful they see a game 7 in that series. He then let himself down a bit in game 7, which easily becomes the lasting image.

    Either way, I agree with your conclusion. He's almost impossible to move and will be staying put because any real contender don't need him enough to smash their wage structure.

  12. #52
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    I don't need an advanced stat to tell me it's not possible to say someone like Rinne is better than someone like Hank when you see the teams they are on.

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    While I was at Spotrac I noticed it said Rangers sign 1yr deal with Steven Fogarty at $708,000. On 7/4/18. Not big news but it was the first I've heard it.

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  14. #54
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    There's a thread on it in the In the System section.


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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Rinne and Hellebuyck were both bad in the playoffs, Vasilevsky was pedestrian when the defense fell apart late in the year, Holtby lost his job as a starter, and Fleury was streaky in the playoffs as he's always done. Henrik maybe isn't a clear upgrade, but I'd take him over any of those guys.

    Frederick ANDERSEN is maybe the one goalie in the league that Henrik isn't an upgrade on.

    I don't understand how, when discussing Henrik, people forget the absolute sieve of a defense that has been in front of him. Give Henrik the Caps structure and watch him win the Vezina. No goalie has a chance the way the Rangers have defended the last couple of years, and the fact that his numbers are even decent is a testament to just how outstanding he really is. Like, if a Rangers fan has to pick a goalie to win one game, tomorrow, how could the fan pick anyone other than Henrik after watching the last decade? It's just baffling to me.
    Agreed. I still don't get how people shit on Lundqvist. I can't think of a season in which he didn't carry this team. He did have a stinker of a start the season before last if I remember correctly, but he always bounced back. I really feel bad for the guy, and I love how much he wants to stay in NY. If only the CBA allowed players to restructure their contracts. I think Lundqvist would have done so to help the team possibly sign a free agent, or make a trade.

    Guys fucking great.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    There's a thread on it in the In the System section.


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    Thx

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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Agreed. I still don't get how people shit on Lundqvist. I can't think of a season in which he didn't carry this team. He did have a stinker of a start the season before last if I remember correctly, but he always bounced back. I really feel bad for the guy, and I love how much he wants to stay in NY. If only the CBA allowed players to restructure their contracts. I think Lundqvist would have done so to help the team possibly sign a free agent, or make a trade.

    Guys fucking great.
    Nobody's shitting on him for fucks sake.
    Apart from this Browning guy I suppose.

    I mean I'm only saying that, in my opinion, he's not an upgrade on the Stanley Cup winning goaltender and the Vezina candidates for this season. It's hardly saying the guy is done.
    Last edited by Gravesy; 07-08-2018 at 03:29 PM.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Shots faced is not always a true representation of a goalie's workload. High danger scoring chances against is much more indicative of what a goalie has to face night in and night out. Just by watching the games you shouldn't even need to look up these stats to know how terrible the Rangers defense has been the last few years. They have left Hank out to dry on an almost nightly basis. But here....the Rangers have been in the bottom 3 for 5v5 high danger scoring chances allowed since AV got here (https://www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php). The last 3 years (HDCA):

    2015-2016: worst in the league
    2016-2017: 3rd worst (Ari/NYI worse)
    2017-2018: 2nd worst (NYI worse)

    Good company we have.
    Good post, beat me to it.

    Shot volume isn't as important as dangerous shot volume, and the Rangers have been atrocious there. The fact that Hank's numbers are even middle of the pack means he's playing really well.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Lothbrok View Post
    BIG qualifying statement here: I'm not overly familiar with how the stats corroborate or refute this assertion. But, I will say this: we always like to talk on here about the "eye test," and the change in Hank's style over the years is palpable. Once upon a time his big claim to fame was his poise, positioning and economical movement. He made every save look easy. One crisp, clean move to go butterfly and make the stop. I don't think I saw him throw a two-pad stack in his first 7-8 years in the league.

    Nowadays, however, he works A LOT harder to make the save. A lot of twitchy, flailing movement. A lot of diving, sprawling, and a general overall lesser lack of control. Every save looks difficult. I don't know, maybe as his reaction has naturally slowed he went buck-wild with getting in tip-top shape so that he could compensate with all athleticism. He still makes the difficult save (mostly) but he no longer looks comfortable doing it. He used to control the shot, now he reacts to it almost belatedly.

    I'm not sure how else to describe it; I can't really put my finger on it. Maybe more goaltending theory-savvy people can weigh in and (dis)agree. But just on personal observation, he looks way less in control.
    He has to scramble a lot more because the defense in front of him is so much worse. There's no structure, so he can't anticipate anything, and that makes him way more reactive, so his positioning gets off.

    I will say that, at times, he gets a little bit antsy and that's on him, but it's a product of him having no trust in the defense in front of him. It's kind of like a quarterback who takes a bunch of hits early in his career, and then feels pressure when it's not there. He has to anticipate cross-ice passes, high danger chances in the slot, and guys in front being totally uncontested so he cheats them even when those plays don't happen. His fundamentals sometimes fall apart when he does that, and some of the softies go in. Much of that would be fixed with any type of consistent defensive structure. Last year showed that he can still be a 60-game, elite goaltender, and he hasn't broken down with age.

  20. #60
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    I'm very curious to see how this all plays out over the season. I think Hank still has a couple of seasons of good play in him. Some of you guys have some pretty solid points too. I kinda figured that contract is going to be a lot to get around as far as dealing him, but I really would like to see the guy give it a shot at winning a cup...even if it is on another team.

    I simply don't think the Rangers are going to be a viable contender for at least 3 years, and I just don't see him as "our guy" 3 years down the pike.

    But how does that 2nd rounder, Lindbom fit in here? He has some pretty good upside from the numbers and reports I've read. Knowing this franchise, we'll probably deal the kid away and he'll turn into fucking Pelle Lindbergh reincarnated.

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