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Thread: What to do with The King?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Rinne and Hellebuyck were both bad in the playoffs, Vasilevsky was pedestrian when the defense fell apart late in the year, Holtby lost his job as a starter, and Fleury was streaky in the playoffs as he's always done. Henrik maybe isn't a clear upgrade, but I'd take him over any of those guys.

    Frederick ANDERSEN is maybe the one goalie in the league that Henrik isn't an upgrade on.

    I don't understand how, when discussing Henrik, people forget the absolute sieve of a defense that has been in front of him. Give Henrik the Caps structure and watch him win the Vezina. No goalie has a chance the way the Rangers have defended the last couple of years, and the fact that his numbers are even decent is a testament to just how outstanding he really is. Like, if a Rangers fan has to pick a goalie to win one game, tomorrow, how could the fan pick anyone other than Henrik after watching the last decade? It's just baffling to me.
    I'm not slating Henrik. I'm merely saying I don't think he's better than those goalies. Certainly not anywhere near enough of an upgrade to make them consider smashing their wage structure to trade for him. As for your points,
    Holtby: Lost his place, then came back after 2 games and was absolutely instrumental in winning the Stanley Cup
    Fleury: Was incredible literally throughout the season.
    I dont think it's true Rinne and Hellebuyck were bad in the playoffs, although they both had iffy performances in key moments.

    If I'm Tampa, Nashville, Washington, Winnipeg or Las Vegas I'm not even thinking about trading for Hank.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I'm not slating Henrik. I'm merely saying I don't think he's better than those goalies. Certainly not anywhere near enough of an upgrade to make them consider smashing their wage structure to trade for him. As for your points,
    Holtby: Lost his place, then came back after 2 games and was absolutely instrumental in winning the Stanley Cup
    Fleury: Was incredible literally throughout the season.
    I dont think it's true Rinne and Hellebuyck were bad in the playoffs, although they both had iffy performances in key moments.

    If I'm Tampa, Nashville, Washington, Winnipeg or Las Vegas I'm not even thinking about trading for Hank.
    I didn't say those teams should trade for him. But this idea that all these guys are better than Henrik based on...idk what...is just a reach. They're all comparable in one way or another, but the context of where Henrik belongs among the best goalies in the league is way off.

    Holtby was fine in the playoffs. But there's never been any legitimate consideration to not starting Henrik in the playoffs, is the point.
    Fleury was awful in the Cup Final.
    Rinne and Hellebuyck both had sv% of less than .900 in almost half of their playoff games. Off the top of my head...Rinne was 7 in 15 games and Hellebuyck was 8 in 17.

    WPG had lots of turnovers and that didn't help Hellebuyck, but none of those guys had to play with a consistently horrible defense like Hank has had the last few years.

  3. #23
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    Lundqvist's playoff stats for 16-17 are equivalent to Marc-Andre Fleury in 17-18. Lundqvist did that with a much worse team. Lundqvist's decline is overblown.

  4. #24
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    How can any fan who watched him play the last two seasons think he's good? As I've stated before, Raanta put up incredible numbers with a much worse defense. Nobody has any interest in taking old king paycheck. We're stuck with this Swedish nightmare, for what, 3 more years. We need our Russian Czar asap. Buy out his last year, along with his comrade Kravt.

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  5. #25
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    Maybe Lundqvist doesn't seem as good because the team in front of him isn't as good? Over the last three seasons, Lundqvist has faced the highest shots faced per game in his career. This season he faced 32.3 per game. The highest he's ever faced in his career. The second most he's faced was 29.9 per game in 2015-16. Compare those to a career average of 28.6. The team defense has been considerably worse.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    Maybe Lundqvist doesn't seem as good because the team in front of him isn't as good? Over the last three seasons, Lundqvist has faced the highest shots faced per game in his career. This season he faced 32.3 per game. The highest he's ever faced in his career. The second most he's faced was 29.9 per game in 2015-16. Compare those to a career average of 28.6. The team defense has been considerably worse.
    32 shots per game is league average. 14 out of 28 wins Hank had were to teams that didn't make the playoffs, a couple did but barely. The excuses are legion. I could write pages and pages of suck, just as people can write pages of praise. My opinion I realize is not popular but there are many true blue fans who feel as I do.

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBrowningPI View Post
    How can any fan who watched him play the last two seasons think he's good? As I've stated before, Raanta put up incredible numbers with a much worse defense. Nobody has any interest in taking old king paycheck. We're stuck with this Swedish nightmare, for what, 3 more years. We need our Russian Czar asap. Buy out his last year, along with his comrade Kravt.

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    How can any fan that’s watched the team the last 2 years blame the goalie?
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

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    lundqvist might go to a sc contender and waive his nmc, but those teams are fine in net. he appears satisfied in ny, so even if he had the opportunity to go to a contender it does not seem like he would want to go. pretty unlikely there is a team willing to take him where he would agree to go.
    "We're all f*cked. It helps to remember that." - George Carlin

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    How is that league average? Over the last three seasons Lundqvist has faced the second most shots against in the league. The only goaltender to face more is Cam Talbot. Facing 171 more shots in 11 more games played. Devan Dubnyk is the third goaltender but has faced 190 fewer shots in 7 more games played than Lundqvist. Tell me how that's league average.

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    The King is one of the most remarkable mental specimens that I have seen in watching the Rangers for 50 years. Some of that rubs off.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I'm not slating Henrik. I'm merely saying I don't think he's better than those goalies. Certainly not anywhere near enough of an upgrade to make them consider smashing their wage structure to trade for him. As for your points,
    Holtby: Lost his place, then came back after 2 games and was absolutely instrumental in winning the Stanley Cup
    Fleury: Was incredible literally throughout the season.
    I dont think it's true Rinne and Hellebuyck were bad in the playoffs, although they both had iffy performances in key moments.

    If I'm Tampa, Nashville, Washington, Winnipeg or Las Vegas I'm not even thinking about trading for Hank.
    I still take Hank over those other goalies , the only reason they don't have him is because they can't afford him

  12. #32
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    Why canít there be a middle ground here? Why canít the fan appreciate and marvel at his career but also realize that his presence on the team is counter to the direction of the team?

    My opinion is if hank wants to stay then by all means he should be welcomed and celebrated. Him staying can have zero influence in roster decisions and that should be understood by him from day 1. I also believe he has no choice because his contract is untradeable.

    As of today hank is an average nhl goalie. He certainly is not the reason for the teams problems but he is not what he once was. He was that for a consistent decade and that is remarkable. Give him his due. Itís his choice what happens to him heís earned that. But do not make the mistake of thinking this is the hank of five years ago. Most of his prime was played behind a team that was conservative to a fault by most fans view. His best years were played when the entire team blocked everything possible. Those years are all credited to him while the no structure years of av leave him blameless. Can he be something in between?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    How can any fan that’s watched the team the last 2 years blame the goalie?
    That's not quite fair. Hank has been pretty inconsistent in his own right. The team has been really bad and it's not all Hank's fault but he certainly hasn't been very good.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew a Penalty View Post
    How is that league average? Over the last three seasons Lundqvist has faced the second most shots against in the league. The only goaltender to face more is Cam Talbot. Facing 171 more shots in 11 more games played. Devan Dubnyk is the third goaltender but has faced 190 fewer shots in 7 more games played than Lundqvist. Tell me how that's league average.
    Stop making sense
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodka Drunkenski View Post
    Stop making sense
    NHL Network talked about how the league is shooting more. That 28. whatever is from 2 years ago. They stated that the league average has gone up to 31-32 shots per game. Even if it was 29 to 32 for Hank does that mean he can't handle 3 more shots per game? Please. He even stated that he likes to be more active in games. Look at his splits. When he gets into the low 20 shots he often loses those games. How many games do we have to cringe at the first shot? How many times does he have to crush the will of the team by going down 2-0 on softies? He's made himself a joke to our rivals. But of course he'll blame the closest defenseman for his inability. Just shoot high and score.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBrowningPI View Post
    NHL Network talked about how the league is shooting more. That 28. whatever is from 2 years ago. They stated that the league average has gone up to 31-32 shots per game. Even if it was 29 to 32 for Hank does that mean he can't handle 3 more shots per game? Please. He even stated that he likes to be more active in games. Look at his splits. When he gets into the low 20 shots he often loses those games. How many games do we have to cringe at the first shot? How many times does he have to crush the will of the team by going down 2-0 on softies? He's made himself a joke to our rivals. But of course he'll blame the closest defenseman for his inability. Just shoot high and score.

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    A joke to our rivals? The Isles were icing Halak and Greiss and Schneider lost his job to Kinkaid.

    Wtf are we talking about here....?

  17. #37
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    Current statistics literally tell you how many shots he's facing and that it's that much more than everyone else. You're refusing to believe that because that's what NHL Network says. Go to NHL.com. Look at the stats. Do the math to figure out the more complicated numbers if it pleases. Everything says that he has his work cut out for him.

    If you can find me a statistic on softies I'd be happy to consider it. The fact of the matter is, Lundqvist is winning more games for this team than he's losing them. That's been the case and that's always been the case. You can look up how he performs in terms of shot danger statistics. Where Lundqvist currently struggles statistically is with mid danger shots, meaning shots from the slot. Maybe that's telling of the Rangers needing to defend a little bit better.

    You don't know what you've got until it's gone I guess.

  18. #38
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    Shots faced is not always a true representation of a goalie's workload. High danger scoring chances against is much more indicative of what a goalie has to face night in and night out. Just by watching the games you shouldn't even need to look up these stats to know how terrible the Rangers defense has been the last few years. They have left Hank out to dry on an almost nightly basis. But here....the Rangers have been in the bottom 3 for 5v5 high danger scoring chances allowed since AV got here (https://www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php). The last 3 years (HDCA):

    2015-2016: worst in the league
    2016-2017: 3rd worst (Ari/NYI worse)
    2017-2018: 2nd worst (NYI worse)

    Good company we have.

  19. #39
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    And how was this not an av problem? How do his defenders justify defensive numbers like these. Most here hated torts for his style which is structure to a fault. He’d even bench stars for not staying in line with that structure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBrowningPI View Post
    NHL Network talked about how the league is shooting more. That 28. whatever is from 2 years ago. They stated that the league average has gone up to 31-32 shots per game. Even if it was 29 to 32 for Hank does that mean he can't handle 3 more shots per game? Please. He even stated that he likes to be more active in games. Look at his splits. When he gets into the low 20 shots he often loses those games. How many games do we have to cringe at the first shot? How many times does he have to crush the will of the team by going down 2-0 on softies? He's made himself a joke to our rivals. But of course he'll blame the closest defenseman for his inability. Just shoot high and score.

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