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Thread: Rangers Attempting to Acquire Matt Martin's Contract from TOR

  1. #41
    Senior Member Mite Division RJWantsTheCup's Avatar
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    Martin was traded to the Islanders


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    There’s an entire thread about it
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    Let's Go Rangers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I'm being realistic. You can keep thinking that they can get Trouba or Debrusk. I'm setting the bar low and seeking out types of players I feel will benefit what will be a young and soft core. I don't see a goon in this teams future. A guy that plays scrappy and can possibly handle a 2nd line role at tops would be a really solid move. Sorry that you disagree.
    I don't disagree, but I'm not bringing in decent grit in exchange for our #2 C. You can join Chiarelli in hanging a sucker sign, I'm not interested.

    I don't think we should move Hayes now, unless we get the going rate for top 6 centers. I don't think we can get those players but there were reports the Rangers are interested in Trouba (and he's asking 8.5 pre free agency) and we could offer a package around a center, because of their need. Someone else brought up Debrusk, but we didn't spend time on it. Contrast that with the way you beat us over the head with dumping the same guys for nickels on the dollar.

    Matt Martin was just given away, we could have had him or other 4th line scraps that were just signed. Dime a dozen. Not sure why we didn't pluck one for a 5th rounder during the draft before salaries inflated this free agency. Bad planning, but I'm not compounding that mistake by trading a guy with a lot of value for a JAG with grit.

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    We better get Shaw plus for Hayes.

    Trading 1 for 1 would be gross neglect.

  5. #45
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    Shaw, Lehkonen, and Juulsen.


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  6. #46
    Senior Member Squirt Division jsrangers's Avatar
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    Some rebuild plan we've shown so far. Matt Martin. A guy that couldn't even make the lineup every game. Smh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsrangers View Post
    Some rebuild plan we've shown so far. Matt Martin. A guy that couldn't even make the lineup every game. Smh.

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    You can still acquire vets as long as you aren’t sacrificing the future. Several of us mentioned making a move similar to a Martin +4th for a 6th type of deal
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    If Gorton rings Lou now and asks for Nylander, Lou will probably inform him he currently works for the Isles to be fair.
    That would've been an awkward conversation.

    Who the hell is running Toronto now?

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    Kyle Dubas.

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    Hello all, new guy here. Was at nyrcafe, but all of a sudden gone a few months back.

    I would've liked Matt Martin of 5 years ago. Not today's version or the price.

    Hayes, like this kid and is on his last chance here to make it or go. Kid has skill and is a big body. Just needs the attitude, and to put it all together on a consistent basis.

    This new coach might help with that. Quinn seems like a no frills guy, who will demand hard work.
    "I went to a fight the other night, and a hockey game broke out."
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    Quote Originally Posted by n_y_r_09 View Post
    Hello all, new guy here. Was at nyrcafe, but all of a sudden gone a few months back.

    I would've liked Matt Martin of 5 years ago. Not today's version or the price.

    Hayes, like this kid and is on his last chance here to make it or go. Kid has skill and is a big body. Just needs the attitude, and to put it all together on a consistent basis.

    This new coach might help with that. Quinn seems like a no frills guy, who will demand hard work.
    Welcome!

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Welcome!
    Thanks!
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    Rodney Dangerfield

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    I don't disagree, but I'm not bringing in decent grit in exchange for our #2 C. You can join Chiarelli in hanging a sucker sign, I'm not interested.

    I don't think we should move Hayes now, unless we get the going rate for top 6 centers. I don't think we can get those players but there were reports the Rangers are interested in Trouba (and he's asking 8.5 pre free agency) and we could offer a package around a center, because of their need. Someone else brought up Debrusk, but we didn't spend time on it. Contrast that with the way you beat us over the head with dumping the same guys for nickels on the dollar.

    Matt Martin was just given away, we could have had him or other 4th line scraps that were just signed. Dime a dozen. Not sure why we didn't pluck one for a 5th rounder during the draft before salaries inflated this free agency. Bad planning, but I'm not compounding that mistake by trading a guy with a lot of value for a JAG with grit.
    If im a sucker like Chiarelli..... I feel that I'm not the sucker sold in Hayes being a second line center. He's a solid third and I think this team has multiple options for the third slot. All are rookies.

    So let me get this right. You can tout Hayes all you want propping him up as a second line center, going on and on about trade possibilities involving him, that are seriously out if reach, and that's fine.

    Then there's me, that's trying to be realistic in what the value of the player actually is, but I have to shut up????

    You're trying to trade him too. Only difference is you think he is worth a young legit 1st pair RH D man, and I feel he's worth a 2nd line forward with grit. And I'm the one who has to back off?

    Matt Martin fucking sucks. The fact that Toronto got someone (let alone the team they stole Tavares from) to give up an asset for that contract is hilarious.

    My opinion is that the Rangers need a player or two, that can play middle six, and be able to contribute a physical style game that fits what Quinn wants to play. Besides the defensive side of the game, I don't see Hayes as a fit. Especially at 5 years at 5+ with a no trade (something everyone is overlooking).

    You keep calling him a 2nd line center, but I don't think he is, and I have a feeling the rest of the league agrees, otherwise he would be traded for a gigantic haul just under what the Sabres got for a guy who admitidly gave up last season. If the Rangers are holding on to Hayes and turning down such offers, you should be furious. My opinion is. They aren't getting much heat on Hayes

    Hayes has worth. No doubt. I think people need to get back to reality as to what that worth actually is. It's been a while since it was said that he is generating serious interest from around the league... All the free agent centers have been signed. A legit 1-2 center just brought back a haul in O'Reilly...

    I really think that people are going to be upset if Hayes does get dealt, because the return is going to be much much less than what is being talked about. Everyone has him as a sign and trade in the near future. So, I'm not sold on the majority of the Hayes hypers believing in his abilities, since most just talk about flipping him as soon as possible.
    Last edited by The Dude; 07-04-2018 at 12:59 PM.

  14. #54
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    If you're basing your entire argument on the premise that Hayes isn't a 2nd line center, regardless of opinion, you're wrong because his stats say so.

    He's a 2nd liner on about 20 teams in the NHL...the ones who don't have Stamkos/Point, Kuz/Backstrom, Sid/Malkin, etc.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    If im a sucker like Chiarelli..... I feel that I'm not the sucker sold in Hayes being a second line center. He's a solid third and I think this team has multiple options for the third slot. All are rookies.

    So let me get this right. You can tout Hayes all you want propping him up as a second line center, going on and on about trade possibilities involving him, that are seriously out if reach, and that's fine.

    Then there's me, that's trying to be realistic in what the value of the player actually is, but I have to shut up????

    You're trying to trade him too. Only difference is you think he is worth a young legit 1st pair RH D man, and I feel he's worth a 2nd line forward with grit. And I'm the one who has to back off?

    Matt Martin fucking sucks. The fact that Toronto got someone (let alone the team they stole Tavares from) to give up an asset for that contract is hilarious.

    My opinion is that the Rangers need a player or two, that can play middle six, and be able to contribute a physical style game that fits what Quinn wants to play. Besides the defensive side of the game, I don't see Hayes as a fit. Especially at 5 years at 5+ with a no trade (something everyone is overlooking).

    You keep calling him a 2nd line center, but I don't think he is, and I have a feeling the rest of the league agrees, otherwise he would be traded for a gigantic haul just under what the Sabres got for a guy who admitidly gave up last season. If the Rangers are holding on to Hayes and turning down such offers, you should be furious. My opinion is. They aren't getting much heat on Hayes

    Hayes has worth. No doubt. I think people need to get back to reality as to what that worth actually is. It's been a while since it was said that he is generating serious interest from around the league... All the free agent centers have been signed. A legit 1-2 center just brought back a haul in O'Reilly...

    I really think that people are going to be upset if Hayes does get dealt, because the return is going to be much much less than what is being talked about. Everyone has him as a sign and trade in the near future. So, I'm not sold on the majority of the Hayes hypers believing in his abilities, since most just talk about flipping him as soon as possible.
    No offense meant Dude. I can understand and agree with much of what you are saying. Here is where we disagree.

    1. In a trade, I value Hayes as a 2C with upside. A guy just entering his prime with zero injury issues and exceled in the shutdown D role last year and also improved in taking the puck to the net at the end of the year. He also improved at faceoffs every year. If he listens to his coaches and works hard he can still get better.

    2. If he ever was, Shaw is no longer a 2nd line talent. Shaw is a more battered player who's turning 27 in days. He's starting to show the beginnings of a decline (wear and tear/concussions?) and is not what I want in return. We need to trade our very good assets for talent that is going to contribute to a Cup contender in 3 years. Shaw is not going to be that.

    3. I wanted to see if we could get an available Dman like Hamilton or Trouba for a Hayes package, not just Hayes. Or a top 12 draft pick. It didn't happen, not expecting Trouba to happen.

    4. I expect Hayes to start the season under Quinn and look forward to see how he plays. I'll bet his trade value increases. Sakic was patient with Duchene, Buff was patient about ROR. Columbus with RyJo, Yzerman with Druin. That is what is necessary to extract the value needed to build a contender. 2 way C's this age are not to be sold cheap.
    Last edited by Giacomin; 07-04-2018 at 02:04 PM.

  16. #56
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division rmc51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    If you're basing your entire argument on the premise that Hayes isn't a 2nd line center, regardless of opinion, you're wrong because his stats say so.

    He's a 2nd liner on about 20 teams in the NHL...the ones who don't have Stamkos/Point, Kuz/Backstrom, Sid/Malkin, etc.
    Based on which stats? Surely not by points (130th amongst forwards, 82nd amongst centers).

    We seem to have two groups of people on this board. Those that are in love with Hayes, and those that hate Hayes. He showed to be a solid, lower tier two way center last year and last year only... let's not make him out to be more or less than he is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Based on which stats? Surely not by points (130th amongst forwards, 82nd amongst centers).

    We seem to have two groups of people on this board. Those that are in love with Hayes, and those that hate Hayes. He showed to be a solid, lower tier two way center last year and last year only... let's not make him out to be more or less than he is.
    Please go show me the 25 goal centers who start a Lion's share of their shifts in the D zone and don't get top PP minutes.

    I'm willing to bet his scoring chances generated are top 30 for centers but I don't have the time or the urge to look because you're right...there are 2 groups. Those with perspective and those without.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Please go show me the 25 goal centers who start a Lion's share of their shifts in the D zone and don't get top PP minutes.

    I'm willing to bet his scoring chances generated are top 30 for centers but I don't have the time or the urge to look because you're right...there are 2 groups. Those with perspective and those without.
    Sorry, that is not how it works. The onus is on you to prove he is a 2C and worth top 2C money. Obviously you cannot, so you resort to whiny ad hominem statements that mean nothing.

    We get it. You are in the love Hayes camp, and are incapable of objective thinking on this topic.

  19. #59
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    He outscored Zibanejad at even strength
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Sorry, that is not how it works. The onus is on you to prove he is a 2C and worth top 2C money. Obviously you cannot, so you resort to whiny ad hominem statements that mean nothing.

    We get it. You are in the love Hayes camp, and are incapable of objective thinking on this topic.
    This is the same pathetic argument you always follow. Rather than state facts, you use bullshit statements like "this is what a loser says".

    Your schtick is old and tired.

    For the record you are the one claiming he's not what he is and he shouldn't get paid. So prove it the same way you tried to prove Hertl didn't and got slapped with facts.

    Notice you bailed hard out of that thread.

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