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Thread: How Does J.T. Miller's Extension with Tampa Affect Hayes?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    My fault, I miss understood the acronym for some reason.

    My point is, I'm not measuring him against other players within specific categories, I'm measuring him to all other NHL standards. Add the wild swings of inconsistency and flat out laziness and I don't even consider it.

    I've made no mistake about it, I hate the player. I think he's a moron. I wouldn't pay him $5 let alone 5m. But if he's going to be a 3rd line center on the team, it either can't be for 5 years or it can't be for 5 million.
    You said "you pay for goals." That's the metric you used. Measured against other NHL players who score 25 goals, and take on the workload he does, $5m is low.

    Just say you don't like him for the 10 millionth time and be done with it.

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    You can hate the player as much as you want, but you cant deny that he's worth 5m. Shutdown/PK'ing, 25 goals scoring center is worth that much in todays NHL.

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    I don't "hate" Hayes at all, but after reading all the positives you guys listed, I think this guy would be tremendous trade bait at the deadline to see if we can get a #1 and then some next season from a team on the bubble. I don't see Hayes as anything more than a #2 center and really not a physical one either....especially for his size.

    I cannot discount his stats and he definitely has some good value.

    I say deal him and get either a top young talent or a #1 from a near bottom feeder at this year's deadline. Because I just don't see Hayes even being in his prime by the time the Rangers are going to be a factor again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    I don't "hate" Hayes at all, but after reading all the positives you guys listed, I think this guy would be tremendous trade bait at the deadline to see if we can get a #1 and then some next season from a team on the bubble. I don't see Hayes as anything more than a #2 center and really not a physical one either....especially for his size.

    I cannot discount his stats and he definitely has some good value.

    I say deal him and get either a top young talent or a #1 from a near bottom feeder at this year's deadline. Because I just don't see Hayes even being in his prime by the time the Rangers are going to be a factor again.
    I partly agree, and the fact that we have Chytil, Lias and Howden waiting makes Hayes expendable, but there is no need to rush it. Sign him now for 5x5 and listen to offers come deadline day. If no one offer us atleast a 1st and a prospect we say no and reassess at the '19 draft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    I don't "hate" Hayes at all, but after reading all the positives you guys listed, I think this guy would be tremendous trade bait at the deadline to see if we can get a #1 and then some next season from a team on the bubble. I don't see Hayes as anything more than a #2 center and really not a physical one either....especially for his size.

    I cannot discount his stats and he definitely has some good value.

    I say deal him and get either a top young talent or a #1 from a near bottom feeder at this year's deadline. Because I just don't see Hayes even being in his prime by the time the Rangers are going to be a factor again.
    The problem is you have to sign him before you get to the deadline, though I agree that you'd get a strong return for him there. No bottom team is going to give a top pick for him, otherwise I'd think the Rangers would have already done it.

    Therein lies the rub with Hayes. He's not quite what Rangers fans want him to be, not quite young enough for a rebuilding team, and not quite under contract enough to be a deadline move lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    The problem is you have to sign him before you get to the deadline, though I agree that you'd get a strong return for him there. No bottom team is going to give a top pick for him, otherwise I'd think the Rangers would have already done it.

    Therein lies the rub with Hayes. He's not quite what Rangers fans want him to be, not quite young enough for a rebuilding team, and not quite under contract enough to be a deadline move lol
    Exactly, my good man!!

    I thought he was under contract for this year already...my mistake.

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    This is all good, but the plan is almost 99% certain that they sign him to 4-5 year deal. It doesn't seem that the parties are that far apart that some oddball compromise (like a 3 year deal) happens. Assume he will have a contract.

    Then we get to watch him play in 2018 with the new NY Rangers and assess from there. The wildcard is he is part of a big deal. Trouba is a player the Rangers would include Hayes for, beyond that I haven't heard rumors of interest in any other top line/pair player.

    Brooks will mention this within 10 days and we'll start a thread about it.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc View Post
    You can hate the player as much as you want, but you cant deny that he's worth 5m. Shutdown/PK'ing, 25 goals scoring center is worth that much in todays NHL.
    Didn't you just do that with Miller LOL?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    This was always the case. He scored 25 goals, won over half his draws, plays on the PP and PK. That's the rate, really.
    agreed. Thats what i expected the contract to be. Between 5 and 5.5 million fits the production

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    The end of the season was a glimpse.

    And it’s not like his game is incredibly physically taxing on the body. He could have 10 + more seasons in him.
    I'm not holding my breath that this guy will be putting in 25 goals a year from here on out. The team sucked, he got more ice time, he scored more goals the team lost. Bad...

    I'm never going to hop on board the bandwagon of a player that I feel is mediocre offensively, after he puts in more goals than usual on a shitty team. His career year still had the Rangers miss the playoffs and rip the guts from the team to rebuild. Obviously it's not like he's the sole reason why they had to tear it down, but.... To get his best, the Rangers were at their worst. We want to build around that?
    Last edited by The Dude; 06-28-2018 at 07:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    The problem is you have to sign him before you get to the deadline, though I agree that you'd get a strong return for him there. No bottom team is going to give a top pick for him, otherwise I'd think the Rangers would have already done it.

    Therein lies the rub with Hayes. He's not quite what Rangers fans want him to be, not quite young enough for a rebuilding team, and not quite under contract enough to be a deadline move lol
    And any deal he signs will likely have a no movement) trade clause. So on top of maybe overpaying for a 3rd line center, their options could be limited even more due to the typical add on to almost any Ranger contract.

  12. #52
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    Well thats just blatantly ignoring his on ice performance

    For a team that was shitty from top to bottom, calling out their best defensive forward and their 2nd most productive even strength player because he was stuck on the 2nd and third line seems pretty ignorant
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Well thats just blatantly ignoring his on ice performance

    For a team that was shitty from top to bottom, calling out their best defensive forward and their 2nd most productive even strength player because he was stuck on the 2nd and third line seems pretty ignorant
    Didn't Thirty-one mention how shitty he was up until January, then "caught fire" popping in a few more goals than his usual? Can we not act like he's some offensive force? If he were, wouldn't he be on the PP? Or at least have some kind of PP numbers? His on ice performance is... skate the puck into the corner and do very little with it.

    2nd most productive player at even strength on a shitty team still makes a shitty team.

    His best season came from more ice time, due to the team being THAT SHITTY, that they had to play him there, and it didn't improve the team. They still sucked. A team with Kevin Hayes as it's 2nd line center is going to suck. It did last year. Didn't it? What's the upside here besides tanking because the team roles this guy out there more than they should???

  14. #54
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    Hes one of the non shitty guys on that crappy team, unfortunately
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Hes one of the non shitty guys on that crappy team, unfortunately
    So was Grabner. So was Staal. So was Nash. We want them back? Spooner did awesome. Let's sign him for 5 years too... No?

  16. #56
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    Imo Hayes needs to show more consistency on the ice to get paid accordingly. He also needs to change a few off ice habits. Will it play a part in his contract here? Maybe, maybe not. If he signs here for a few bucks or few years less than we expect based strictly on his numbers, that will give a clearer picture of where he stands and what his expected of him during his new contract.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Imo Hayes needs to show more consistency on the ice to get paid accordingly. He also needs to change a few off ice habits. Will it play a part in his contract here? Maybe, maybe not. If he signs here for a few bucks or few years less than we expect based strictly on his numbers, that will give a clearer picture of where he stands and what his expected of him during his new contract.
    Interesting points. Curious how it pans out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Didn't you just do that with Miller LOL?
    Tell me again where I said he didnt deserve his contract? I just argued that he was no first line player, and he's not pay'd to be one, so I have no problems with JT's contract, just the way they used him last season.

    I don't like Miller, but he's worth 5+ mill in todays NHL. I've never said otherwise, so try again.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    So was Grabner. So was Staal. So was Nash. We want them back? Spooner did awesome. Let's sign him for 5 years too... No?
    Those guys are old, past their prime. Hayes is entering his.

    I didnt say anything about his contract, either.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Those guys are old, past their prime. Hayes is entering his.

    I didnt say anything about his contract, either.
    Last season Hayes played like a 5.5 mill guy but the 2 previous seasons he took shortcuts (bad changes, goal hanging) so do you pay based on last season or all 4 of his seasons?

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