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Thread: In a Copy Cat League, What Does Vegas and Washington Mean for the Rangers?

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Sure but I don't think you can call a 14 year process a successful game plan. Every single thing about that team is different, including the guy who drafted him.

    If the Oilers win in 13 years are we really going to say, "See! All you have to do is tank!"
    Again, we're all talking past one another.

    I've never suggested this was their plan. What I've suggested is the same sentiments Dave shared in this thread. That winning the Stanley Cup is a complex formula, and that specific behaviors such as "tanking" increase the odds of you acquiring pieces that we should all agree improve the odds of winning one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Are we really going to try and debate that the Caps would have won without the Conn Smythe Winner?

    Some things we just have to admit that "I don't know it for a fact, but I know it's true."
    Not debating anything, just saying it’s impossible to prove.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodka Drunkenski View Post
    Not debating anything, just saying it’s impossible to prove.
    Common sense needs to come into play at some point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Common sense needs to come into play at some point.
    Not when you’re having fun and stirring the pot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodka Drunkenski View Post
    Not when you’re having fun and stirring the pot
    LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    What teams do you consider the ones that "tanked"?
    Primarly Pittsburgh, Chicago, Carolina and Washington. However, all the teams that I list benefited greatly from top picks in the draft. Some through those picks' play, some by trading those top prospects for core players to their teams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Exactly. I don't consider the Ducks as winning because they tanked. They were lead by players they didn't draft in the regular season. In the playoffs, Getzlaf (19) and Perry (28) played well, but those aren't tank picks. Also they won due to Giggy's unreal play in net.

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    The Ducks are a good example of using those top picks to acquire the talent it took to win. In 2005 they got the 2nd overall pick, Bobby Ryan. That allowed them to trade Lupul (7th overall) and Smid (9th overall) for Chris Pronger because they now had a bluechip prospect. They moved some of the top prospects they aquired in the top-10 because they had the 2nd overall in the bag. They also started their team's relationship with Selanne by trading Kilger (4th overall) and Tverdovsky (2nd overall) for him originally. He left, but then later came back as a UFA. Had they never acquired him originally by moving two of their top prospects at the time, it's less likely he signs with them in the future.

    Pronger and Selanne were both key members of that Cup winning team. You are right though, Getzlaf and Perry were also key players. You need to draft well outside of the top of the draft, make the right management decisions, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Washington tanked, got Ovi, and BAM .... 14 years later it’s a Stanley Cup. Doubt that was the plan.
    They didn't magically win this season. They won because they had a generational player for over a decade and had numerous chances that finally paid off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Sure but I don't think you can call a 14 year process a successful game plan. Every single thing about that team is different, including the guy who drafted him.

    If the Oilers win in 13 years are we really going to say, "See! All you have to do is tank!"
    If they do it after a number of years at the top of the league lead by McDavid and the other top players they drafted and finally win a Cup 13 years from now, while the other teams that followed a similar path (Winnipeg, Toronto, Buffalo) have also been Cup winners in that span, while only two franchises have won the Cup without going that route, then yes. I will say just that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    The Ducks are a good example of using those top picks to acquire the talent it took to win. In 2005 they got the 2nd overall pick, Bobby Ryan. That allowed them to trade Lupul (7th overall) and Smid (9th overall) for Chris Pronger because they now had a bluechip prospect. They moved some of the top prospects they aquired in the top-10 because they had the 2nd overall in the bag. They also started their team's relationship with Selanne by trading Kilger (4th overall) and Tverdovsky (2nd overall) for him originally. He left, but then later came back as a UFA. Had they never acquired him originally by moving two of their top prospects at the time, it's less likely he signs with them in the future.

    Pronger and Selanne were both key members of that Cup winning team. You are right though, Getzlaf and Perry were also key players. You need to draft well outside of the top of the draft, make the right management decisions, etc.
    Again, this is bringing up high draft picks from over a decade before they won. There is a shit load that changes in an organization over that amount to time. And is that really that different than what the Rangers did? Trading 1st round picks for Nash, Yandle, St.Louis, Brassard. Signing Gaborik and Richards.

    To me all this proves is that its hard to win the cup. It takes a lot of luck and things coming together. For whatever reason Carolina and Anaheim were able to get over the hump and the Rangers weren't. Obviously winning the cup is the end goal, but I wouldn't point to Carolina as an example of how to build a cup winner and as for the Ducks, they've been essentially the same as the Rangers since the lock out in terms of a built up contender minus the Rangers getting over the hump. When you look back over that time period (since the lockout) the Rangers are ~top 7ish in the league. In a copy cat league the Rangers were one of the leaders that the shit teams that never make the playoffs should use as an example. And going forward the Rangers are going to get out of the cellar as fast as possible. They will not draft in the top 10 for the next decade.

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