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Thread: Should the Rangers Pursue Ryan O’Reilly?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Wut.
    He's supposed to be a leader? His teams underachieve and he lost interest in the game because of it. Maybe he's a poor locker room guy. Maybe his team mates don't respect him. Maybe he's just a puck hog and puts up ok numbers getting top line ice time? I don't know. But so far that's two young teams surrounded by top tier draft picks, he's been on as a main piece, and the results are not good. Terrible is the word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    What am I looking at here? The stats seem all wrong...?
    Doh! I think I plugged the values in wrong. I'll do it again tonight and post another update. His relative numbers are good, though. Positve relative CF every year of his career but his rookie season. Positive relative FF every year of his career, too. And he's been used with heavy defensive zone starts the last four years, too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Playing for two awful teams over the last five years, among all active centers who’ve played in at least 300 games, his 295 points in 386 games is tied for 12th in the entire league. Those directly around him: Bergeron (301), Toews (302), Staal (295), and Zetterberg (288).

    Using the same 300 game limits, he's tied for 17th in even strength points, too.

    How can this possibly be classified as mediocre?
    Guess what? Rangers would be awful team #3. He's a complimentary piece on a good team. He's not someone to build around. I've watched him play a decent amount -- kind of waiting for all that early hype to finally pay off and I just don't think he's that good. He's fine, I guess, but I'm not sure how we get him or how he helps the issue of raw talent. We have "hard workers" we need skilled hockey players.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Doh! I think I plugged the values in wrong. I'll do it again tonight and post another update. His relative numbers are good, though. Positve relative CF every year of his career but his rookie season. Positive relative FF every year of his career, too. And he's been used with heavy defensive zone starts the last four years, too.
    Yea I figured. When I saw the charts I was like wut...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Guess what? Rangers would be awful team #3. He's a complimentary piece on a good team. He's not someone to build around. I've watched him play a decent amount -- kind of waiting for all that early hype to finally pay off and I just don't think he's that good. He's fine, I guess, but I'm not sure how we get him or how he helps the issue of raw talent. We have "hard workers" we need skilled hockey players.
    That's fine. You disagree. That's the point of the forum. It's why I made the thread. I didn't assume everyone would just agree.

    I clearly think higher of him than you. I'm OK with us not seeing eye-to-eye on that. But I'm definitely not going to let you slide by calling him mediocre or complimentary when he's sharing connective tissue with other first-line centers, and has produced as one himself despite playing for awful clubs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Yea I figured. When I saw the charts I was like wut...
    Yeah, I have no idea what went wrong there. Owen's bath time here in a minute and K is out with friends tonight, so I'll try to remember to do this tonight after he's asleep.
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    Not much contribution here by me, but I’m gonna say no. Mostly because he’s a vagina on steel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Not that I'm expecting this to go over well, but analytics say otherwise. His relative possession metrics are insane. Compared to Hayes, specifically, he absolutely dwarfs him:

    Whats the top section???
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Whats the top section???
    We can ignore this chart for now, Josh. I screwed up inputting the values. It's inaccurate. Sorry. I'll try to remember to post an accurate one tonight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Not much contribution here by me, but I’m gonna say no. Mostly because he’s a vagina on steel.
    Vaginas are the toughest organs on the planet. They literally push out bowling ball-sized humans and return to form and function

    But seriously, on this point, I'll say this: when Quinn was asked by Steve Serby of the Post recently what his definition of toughness is, his response was appropriate for today's game, and specifically ROR.

    "Someone who can take a hit to make a play."

    He'll never be mistaken for Lucic or Lindros, but his style of play would fit that expectation like a glove.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Not much contribution here by me, but I’m gonna say no. Mostly because he’s a vagina on steel.
    Definitely not.

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    First guy brought up to me that at least makes sense. I don’t love it but I can see the reason behind it. If it was Hayes and day for him I’m doing that all day long even a second or a third too. The guy is a massive upgrade on Hayes and is still extremely young. Buffalo retaining some money makes it a wash on what Hayes will be signing this summer.

    To me this has to be up to Quinn. If he views ror as the example he wants in the room as the bar to how to play then it should be up to him. All other opinions should come second. Let Quinn assemble his leadership group. That group is going to have as big an impact as any in this rebuild. Drafting is vital but it does no good if you can’t develop. If ror being on the roster helps in development of culture and performance than go for it. That said his career doesn’t speak to that. However he’s still extremely young so his career is far from defined.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    What am I looking at here? The stats seem all wrong...?
    I realized why it was off. It's 5v5 per 60, not straight seasonal totals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    That's fine. You disagree. That's the point of the forum. It's why I made the thread. I didn't assume everyone would just agree.

    I clearly think higher of him than you. I'm OK with us not seeing eye-to-eye on that. But I'm definitely not going to let you slide by calling him mediocre or complimentary when he's sharing connective tissue with other first-line centers, and has produced as one himself despite playing for awful clubs.
    What connective tissue? What other teams have 60pt first line centers that are any good? You can break stats down ten ways to Sunday to prove any point but his track record proves he is what he is.
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    This would be such a Rangers trade to make. That's a huge gamble on someone who's going to be costing 7.5 mill per through 2023. And no longer "young" in the hockey world.

    Hard pass for me.

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    I like ROR. And I think he’s a lot better than most in here seem to think. He certainly improves this roster a great deal.
    I don’t mind dealing Hayes for him, but I’m a little bit worried about dealing the pick as there’s possibilities for a really good player there. And I like the little I’ve seen of Day.
    But that’s the thing, adding good players to a rebuild roster is going to hurt a bit.

    I’d consider it.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    What connective tissue? What other teams have 60pt first line centers that are any good?...
    Nashville. Boston. Chicago (minus this season when they finally hit a wall). San Jose.

    I can name some teams with stud centers that aren't that good, tho. Edmonton...Colorado...Buffalo.

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    I'd be in if even just for his superb drinking and driving acumen.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    What connective tissue? What other teams have 60pt first line centers that are any good? You can break stats down ten ways to Sunday to prove any point but his track record proves he is what he is.
    1. Yes. Like, you know, THE RANGERS!? Stepan, a 60-point center, helped this team to tremendous levels of success for YEARS. Was he the reason they failed to win it all? But if you're looking for more examples, there's Pavelski, Getzlaf, Bergeron, and Johansen in the neighborhood too. All their teams suck, too?

    2. Yes, it proves he's a highly-productive player in spite of the circumstances. I'll take that on my team every single time.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    1. Yes. Like, you know, THE RANGERS!? Stepan, a 60-point center, helped this team to tremendous levels of success for YEARS. Was he the reason they failed to win it all? But if you're looking for more examples, there's Pavelski, Getzlaf, Bergeron, and Johansen in the neighborhood too. All their teams suck, too?

    2. Yes, it proves he's a highly-productive player in spite of the circumstances. I'll take that on my team every single time.


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    Remember when everyone bitched and complained about Stepan? When they were happy that he got traded because we needed to get younger, faster, and more skilled? I do.

    I don’t want another Stepan and certainly not one who’s getting paid more money.
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