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Thread: Penguins Reportedly Looking to Trade Phil Kessel

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    But in this case, trading for Kessel would mean giving up assets we want going forward. They're obviously not going to give up Kessel for any old shit like our RFA's.
    So quite clearly, going for Kessel have an impact on the rebuild that taking a punt on Kovalchuk doesn't.
    Acquiring either one of them means not really worrying about "going forward."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Acquiring either one of them means not really worrying about "going forward."
    Unless I'm reading this wrong, signing Kovalchuk (or similar FA) for a short term, without losing assets, and knowing he will be off the books in 1 or 2 seasons - possibly via trade that brings back picks or prospects - does not hinder any forward movement.

    a 4year deal near $7m... I can see you making a case against that, especially at the cost of picks/prospects.
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    If Kovalchuk is that valued around the league why wouldn't a contender sign him after July 1st and why would he rather come play here on a team that's likely to go through some rough times? Makes little since if the guy is serious about trying to win a cup. Are there no contenders that would offer him the same 1-2 year deal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsrangers View Post
    If Kovalchuk is that valued around the league why wouldn't a contender sign him after July 1st and why would he rather come play here on a team that's likely to go through some rough times? Makes little since if the guy is serious about trying to win a cup. Are there no contenders that would offer him the same 1-2 year deal?
    Can't that be said about any vet, though?

    I don't think it's too hard to understand why someone might come here. Once youve been around the league long enough, you know the good organizations. NY has its perks over other teams and other cities. If he's looking for a short-term deal, why not NY? Get traded to a contender at the deadline - sweet. The city, the team, the lack of travel, the exposure, the money, the advertisements, etc. And it's NY, and the Rangers. They are not going to stay bad forever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Can't that be said about any vet, though?

    I don't think it's too hard to understand why someone might come here. Once youve been around the league long enough, you know the good organizations. NY has its perks over other teams and other cities. If he's looking for a short-term deal, why not NY? Get traded to a contender at the deadline - sweet. The city, the team, the lack of travel, the exposure, the money, the advertisements, etc. And it's NY, and the Rangers. They are not going to stay bad forever.
    Simply because if there's interest from a contender and he wants to win he should go there. If he's coming here because we're going to overpay
    him compared to any other deals he might be offered than I would want him here even less (and I don't care how much cap space we have, it doesn't mean they can't spend it elsewhere). No they're not going to be bad forever but I didn't realize we were now offering a forever contract, so I'm confused by your if he's looking for a short term deal and then pointing to the team not being bad for ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Unless I'm reading this wrong, signing Kovalchuk (or similar FA) for a short term, without losing assets, and knowing he will be off the books in 1 or 2 seasons - possibly via trade that brings back picks or prospects - does not hinder any forward movement.

    a 4year deal near $7m... I can see you making a case against that, especially at the cost of picks/prospects.
    It doesn't. But it's totally pointless if you aren't trying to be a contender right now. If you are trying to be a contender right now, then, say, two late firsts are more valuable acquiring Kessel.

    What I'm saying is that, in a vacuum, if I'm trying to win right now, I'd rather trade for Kessel than sign Kovy, because even though he costs more, you know you are getting a good player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsrangers View Post
    Simply because if there's interest from a contender and he wants to win he should go there. If he's coming here because we're going to overpay
    him compared to any other deals he might be offered than I would want him here even less (and I don't care how much cap space we have, it doesn't mean they can't spend it elsewhere). No they're not going to be bad forever but I didn't realize we were now offering a forever contract, so I'm confused by your if he's looking for a short term deal and then pointing to the team not being bad for ever.
    It's not just about how much we would pay him, necessarily. First, there might be a contender that is up against the cap that may not be able to sign such a player. At the deadline, they will be able to fit in a bigger cap hit. Second, its not just the contract, but playing in NY will allow him to market himself a bit more, than say Arizona.

    As for winning - we dont know what next season, or the season after will hold. You know, coming to NY, that if the team has a chance, they may go for it. They might sign a #1C this summer, or next. They might trade for, or sign a Norris winner. Coming to NY, you know you have a team that may be willing to take the steps necessary to be a contender, if they find themselves in that situation. Knowing a team will try to win (at one point or another) is also intriguing to a player.

    We are in a situation where we can take the risk, without hurting anything moving forward - contrary to what Future said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    We are in a situation where we can take the risk, without hurting anything moving forward - contrary to what Future said.
    I never said that signing Kovy would hurt anything.
    Last edited by Future; 05-30-2018 at 11:00 AM.

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    On 31 Thoughts podcast, Friedman said the Pens have serious interest in acquiring Max Domi. Given the obvious Tocchet connection, I wonder if Arizona wouldn't push to acquire Kessel in a blockbuster?


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    Giving up the #5 seems too high, or I'd say a 1st and Domi would get it done.

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    Lottery-protected 2019?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Lottery-protected 2019?


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    Yea, that could probably do it.

    Smart bet for ARZ, because if they're getting Kessel, its consistent with planning on actually winning some games.

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    I think it would be a bad move for Arizona to trade the Domi + 5th overall (or any 1st rd pick) for Kessel.

    They're still a horrible team, with or without him.
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    They were pretty good the last 30-ish games of last season. From the second week of Feb (I think) they were like 11th in the league and 5th in the West in points and only 2 points behind a bunch of the teams ahead of them over that stretch. That was around a 105-point pace, which they won't hit, but they could be a 95-point playoff team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    They were pretty good the last 30-ish games of last season. From the second week of Feb (I think) they were like 11th in the league and 5th in the West in points and only 2 points behind a bunch of the teams ahead of them over that stretch. That was around a 105-point pace, which they won't hit, but they could be a 95-point playoff team.
    I think the hockey world has been waiting for them to be good for close to 20 years now. They "should be good" is always the mantra. In actuality, they're always at the bottom. They need to spend money on roster players and not just salary dumps. I believe they had more money out of the lineup this season then in it. It's a joke.
    GORTON 2020

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    If I'm the Pens I do Domi and a 1st round pick all day long.

    If I'm Arz I don't really see it as a game changer in any way though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsrangers View Post
    If I'm the Pens I do Domi and a 1st round pick all day long.

    If I'm Arz I don't really see it as a game changer in any way though.
    How would it not be? Domi has regressed more than progressed over his first three seasons and Kessel would immediately give them a serious top line (Kessel, Stepan, Keller). His goal-scoring alone would dramatically improve their offense. They were 30th in goals for last season (206). Adding Kessel over Domi adds another 25 to their totals, moving them to 18th/19th overall, tied with Anaheim and Dallas.

    How is this not a game game changer in any way?
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    Penguins Reportedly Looking to Trade Phil Kessel

    Giving up the 5th overall + for a 31 y/o is foolish
    Last edited by Vodka Drunkenski; 05-31-2018 at 07:44 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsrangers View Post
    If I'm the Pens I do Domi and a 1st round pick all day long.

    If I'm Arz I don't really see it as a game changer in any way though.
    Idk man, I don't think there's a team in the league where Phil Kessel isn't a game changer.

    He had 92 points last year. I know a lot of that was playing with Malkin, and he's not going to get that everywhere, but that's a lot of scoring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodka Drunkenski View Post
    Giving up the 5th overall + for a 31 y/o is foolish
    No one is suggesting 5OA in the deal. Mike and I agreed a first is needed which is why a lottery-protected 2019 makes the most sense.

    Lottery-protected 2019 first, Domi for Kessel straight up is a fair trade all around.


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