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Thread: Subban Wearing Nashville Welcome Out; Does New York Make Sense?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Squirt Division CBrowningPI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I have never seen the Shattenkirk you're talking about.

    There was no trade, he came here as a UFA.

    When did he call out Staal? When did he drop the gloves?

    I would be absolutely floored if he even had a letter.
    Oops, the UFA Shattenkirk fought Malkin on 10/17. The interview afterwards he asked why he was doing it when Staal is the bigger vet player. I'm sure it's on YT. At the beginning of the season he played great.

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    Senior Member Squirt Division Sod16's Avatar
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    Why would a President's Trophy team that certainly is not far from winning a cup be trading it's star defenseman, a former Norris winner? I think that happens when there is some real issue that should you give you pause. Why would Montreal trade him for an older somewhat lesser player? Same question (and answer).

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sod16 View Post
    Why would a President's Trophy team that certainly is not far from winning a cup be trading it's star defenseman, a former Norris winner? I think that happens when there is some real issue that should you give you pause. Why would Montreal trade him for an older somewhat lesser player? Same question (and answer).
    Agreed. This again would be an attempt at a quick fix with a guy that would have played his way off two teams while in theory anyway being a top tier defensemen. Who knows if this is even true.

    * Shattenkirk should never wear a letter. I don't think he's ever been seen as a leader.

    * I think there was even a comment that if they get Subban that would help bring Taveras?

    * Still looking for a shortcut back to middle of the pack. Which would essentially be more of the same. Now with a NHL rookie head coach who I thought was primarily brought in to teach the kids?

    If I had to bet I would say neither Subban nor Taveras ends up here.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsrangers View Post
    Agreed. This again would be an attempt at a quick fix with a guy that would have played his way off two teams while in theory anyway being a top tier defensemen. Who knows if this is even true.

    * Shattenkirk should never wear a letter. I don't think he's ever been seen as a leader.

    * I think there was even a comment that if they get Subban that would help bring Taveras?

    * Still looking for a shortcut back to middle of the pack. Which would essentially be more of the same. Now with a NHL rookie head coach who I thought was primarily brought in to teach the kids?

    If I had to bet I would say neither Subban nor Taveras ends up here.
    You realize this is probably good news? You'd bet Dolan isn't fickle and stays the course? That we'll be patient and hold our prospects and picks? You'd bet Sather stays in the background and resists impulsively adding a star in his quest to get a Cup here before he keels over? That Gorton will be able to proceed unimpeded, in a new direction? That we will carve our own path? Draft and groom our own stars?

    What happened? What's with this optimism and positivity? Did you just find out a long lost uncle left you an inheritance?

  5. #45
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    As a fan, I don't mind PK. I think he's good for the game (aside from the slew-footing).

    For the Rangers? No thanks. There is obviously something he's doing that rubs his teammates the wrong way. Maybe it's because he's a jerk off. Maybe it's because he's black. I don't care the reason, I care about the discourse in the locker room. And it seems to be a recurring theme.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sod16 View Post
    Why would a President's Trophy team that certainly is not far from winning a cup be trading it's star defenseman, a former Norris winner? I think that happens when there is some real issue that should you give you pause. Why would Montreal trade him for an older somewhat lesser player? Same question (and answer).
    Ryan Suter
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    Ellis, Josi, Fabbro, Eckholm - theyre fine.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBrowningPI View Post
    Oops, the UFA Shattenkirk fought Malkin on 10/17. The interview afterwards he asked why he was doing it when Staal is the bigger vet player. I'm sure it's on YT. At the beginning of the season he played great.

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    His game wasn't that great, but he did compete hard enough I think. He's just not a great defensive player.

    After the season, he mentioned how he wished he was a bigger voice in the locker room, and, on the current roster, he's got the chops to be in the leadership group. Plus, he was the captain under Quinn at BU, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if he had a letter on opening night.

    Edit - was captain after Quinn left, so fuck me I guess.
    Last edited by Future; 05-25-2018 at 11:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    His game wasn't that great, but he did compete hard enough I think. He's just not a great defensive player.

    After the season, he mentioned how he wished he was a bigger voice in the locker room, and, on the current roster, he's got the chops to be in the leadership group. Plus, he was the captain under Quinn at BU, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if he had a letter on opening night.

    Edit - was captain after Quinn left, so fuck me I guess.
    Didn't see that, thanks for the info.

    Let's face it, Shatty's issue is that he is horrendous defending and in his own zone. On offense, once the puck is past center ice, Shatty turns into Superman, who sees every lane with special hockey vision. In his end, he's Clark Kent's blind dog who has never seen a hockey puck. Many complained about Yandle's D, but Yandle is Chelios compared to Shatty. Maybe it was the injury, but after the first few weeks his D was horrific. It was blatently bad in his short stint with the Caps the year before.

    IMO the Rangers should trade Shatty before the draft, if they can get reasonable value. His no trade is about to be modified and if the Rangers find an interested party, they should approach Shatty about the new opportunity.

    Go with the youth and shed the salary. The Rangers biggest need is a #1 defensive minded righty. Shatty is none of that. If we acquire a righty, someone has to go anyway. We already have offensive potential on the right side with Pionk and D'Angelo. They are cheap and have upside. Shatty still ain't cheap and he's on the back 9.

    Anyway, I have a feeling this is not going to happen. Other teams probably want to see him after the surgery, before they give up anything of value. Therefore, I need to get used to the idea that Shatty stays on the roster. And the last thing I'm worried about is his leadership and any captain crap. Worry about his play in his own zone.

  9. #49
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    Shattenkirk's biggest problem is that most NYR fans never saw him play before he came here. For the most part, he did pretty well. But, with the Rangers performance last season, and his injury, (plus contract), his trade value is extremely low. During a rebuild - especially with no viable stopgap replacement - there's no need to trade players for little to no return.

    Throw him out against top lines, keep Pionk and Deangelo sheltered in hopes they eventually develop better defensively than Shattenkirk did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Throw him out against top lines, keep Pionk and Deangelo sheltered in hopes they eventually develop better defensively than Shattenkirk did.
    Yikes, he is gonna get roasted and toasted. However, I like it if it means we don't throw the kids to the wolves with a top pair assignment. We really need a decent #1 righty who can complement Skjei. Then a defensive second pair lefty to help either Pionk or D'Angelo. Think we stand pat on the right side and take our lumps? Gulp.

    I've been hoping a team wanting an offensive righty Dman and PPQB would offer us something decent in the draft (maybe a move up) or a prospect or anything we can use. Not near full value. Probably unlikely.

    And the fans aren't the problem. Shatty's D was not as bad as it was the last 2 years. Maybe it was Hitch's system, but he was serviceable in St Louis, not embarassingly awful. Age, injuries and system could be exacerbating his defensive issues. Surgery, new coach... we can hope. Let's see.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Yikes, he is gonna get roasted and toasted. However, I like it if it means we don't throw the kids to the wolves with a top pair assignment.
    Yup.

    We really need a decent #1 righty who can complement Skjei. Then a defensive second pair lefty to help either Pionk or D'Angelo. Think we stand pat on the right side and take our lumps? Gulp.

    I've been hoping a team wanting an offensive righty Dman and PPQB would offer us something decent in the draft (maybe a move up) or a prospect or anything we can use. Not near full value. Probably unlikely.

    And the fans aren't the problem. Shatty's D was not as bad as it was the last 2 years. Maybe it was Hitch's system, but he was serviceable in St Louis, not embarassingly awful. Age, injuries and system could be exacerbating his defensive issues. Surgery, new coach... we can hope. Let's see.
    It's why I had an issue with signing Smith AND Shattenkirk. Spending a lot of money for 2 guys that struggle in top-4 minutes, without major help.

    Fan ignorance to his abilities, then criticizing him for not being able to do what he never did has been a common theme this season.
    Shattenkirk's defense didn't get worse since leaving St. Louis, he's just not getting the same sheltered minutes with a strong defensive partner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Yup.


    It's why I had an issue with signing Smith AND Shattenkirk. Spending a lot of money for 2 guys that struggle in top-4 minutes, without major help.

    Fan ignorance to his abilities, then criticizing him for not being able to do what he never did has been a common theme this season.
    Shattenkirk's defense didn't get worse since leaving St. Louis, he's just not getting the same sheltered minutes with a strong defensive partner.
    And even in St. Louis he was the worst minus on D by far.

    Yes I know it's a team stat but very telling when Pietrangelo is getting tough minutes and is +10 and Shattenkirk isn't and is -10.

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    Maybe the fair criticism isn’t of the player but the decision to sign such a flawed player.

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    Senior Member Squirt Division CBrowningPI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    And even in St. Louis he was the worst minus on D by far.

    Yes I know it's a team stat but very telling when Pietrangelo is getting tough minutes and is +10 and Shattenkirk isn't and is -10.
    So what does a -27 mean for Skjei and a +11 for Staal ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBrowningPI View Post
    So what does a -27 mean for Skjei and a +11 for Staal ?

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    What we already knew. That Staal was exponentially better than Skjei last year.

    That said, what's your point?

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    What we already knew. That Staal was exponentially better than Skjei last year.

    That said, what's your point?
    I simply asked what the +/- stat tells us Re: Skjei since people are saying he'll be getting 1st line minutes and you said the +/- was telling. Capisce? No need to get all snarky.

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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBrowningPI View Post
    I simply asked what the +/- stat tells us Re: Skjei since people are saying he'll be getting 1st line minutes and you said the +/- was telling. Capisce? No need to get all snarky.

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    I'm not, I'm just asking what we're driving at....Skjei had a horrific year. But Shattenkirk was trending down in that area for a bit, and then wasn't very good for the Caps after he was traded.

    I wouldn't draw much of of a correlation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I'm not, I'm just asking what we're driving at....Skjei had a horrific year. But Shattenkirk was trending down in that area for a bit, and then wasn't very good for the Caps after he was traded.

    I wouldn't draw much of of a correlation.
    But if you look at his game logs and splits, it shows he started strong then faded to shit by Dec. IMO it shows that his injury played a significant role in his game and he should be given a chance at redeeming himself as a player in the eyes of fans. I just think he's a much better player then what we remember from last season. I guess that's the crux of my point.

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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBrowningPI View Post
    But if you look at his game logs and splits, it shows he started strong then faded to shit by Dec. IMO it shows that his injury played a significant role in his game and he should be given a chance at redeeming himself as a player in the eyes of fans. I just think he's a much better player then what we remember from last season. I guess that's the crux of my point.

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    He is now, and will be in the future, a poor defensive player who needs managed minutes. Not what you expect for his premium price tag.

    Also not sure how we got to Shattenkirk from comparing to Skjei and Staal.

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    He's always been a one dimensional player and I'm not sure I would ever describe any of his play as great over a season. He's done nothing here top even deserve to be in the conversation about wearing a letter. I hole heartedly hope they actually make guys earn the opportunity to wear one. Barring a guy like Taveras who I still don't think ends up here go without a C and anybody wearing an A should have some contributed here in the past Shattenkirk hasn't done that. Maybe if he stays healthy he has a better year but even then it's almost assuredly only on one side of the puck. I would prefer to not see him get scorched playing against top lines, let the kids take they lumps and learn the ropes. Sheltering them isn't the answer to me. Honestly I hope they aren't putting much stock in DeAngelo.

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