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Thread: Doubtful Spooner is in Rangers' Long-Term Plans

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Itís not about expectations itís about a players value. To me miller and Namestnikov is not equal value, not even close.

    A players ability to be born in a certain country or speak a certain language is a low bar to set. Iím sure there are plenty of guys we could have obtained for nothing who speak Russian.
    Kreider speaks Russian.

    That said, we don't know if it was Miller for Names straight up. We keep talking about it like it was, but we don't know for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Kreider speaks Russian.

    That said, we don't know if it was Miller for Names straight up. We keep talking about it like it was, but we don't know for sure.
    This goes back to people overvaluing McD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodka Drunkenski View Post
    This goes back to people overvaluing McD
    Correct. You had people calling for the likes of Sergachev and Point, which is ridiculous. Yzerman would have to be completely insane to put up that sort of value for McDonagh.
    I don't think McD gets you a first, conditional 2nd, Howden and Hajek. The trade has too many moving parts to look at it as JT for Namestnikov.

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    People are under the assumption that we were trading a 24 year old McD
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    Man, we need some news or something! This is just ridiculously painstaking waiting for a new coach or the draft!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Correct. You had people calling for the likes of Sergachev and Point, which is ridiculous. Yzerman would have to be completely insane to put up that sort of value for McDonagh.
    I don't think McD gets you a first, conditional 2nd, Howden and Hajek. The trade has too many moving parts to look at it as JT for Namestnikov.
    It's almost certain that Miller for Namestnikov was not a sort of separate deal announced together.

    There is no way McDonagh basically returned:

    2016 1st round pick (27th)
    2016 2nd round pick (37th)
    2018 1st round pick (30th-ish)
    2019 2nd round pick (conditional)

    Where both the 2016 picks have already developed pretty well to where they were more known commodities.
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    Miller was the extra budge to include Hajek instead of another prospect plus Namestnikov

    Funny in a month McDonagh will be wade redden on here. Four months ago we were winning cups and we couldn’t even trade our ufas. Now mcd was basically dog shit and miller was bobby Bonilla.

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    McD is on his back 9 now
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanJesus View Post
    It's almost certain that Miller for Namestnikov was not a sort of separate deal announced together.

    There is no way McDonagh basically returned:

    2016 1st round pick (27th)
    2016 2nd round pick (37th)
    2018 1st round pick (30th-ish)
    2019 2nd round pick (conditional)

    Where both the 2016 picks have already developed pretty well to where they were more known commodities.
    Thatís a great way to explain it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Kreider speaks Russian.

    That said, we don't know if it was Miller for Names straight up. We keep talking about it like it was, but we don't know for sure.
    Of course it wasn't. That's why I don't understand when people assume that. The deal was a 5 player trade plus picks. It was a monster in terms of people movement. Miller was just one of the cogs that got it done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Miller was the extra budge to include Hajek instead of another prospect plus Namestnikov

    Funny in a month McDonagh will be wade redden on here. Four months ago we were winning cups and we couldn’t even trade our ufas. Now mcd was basically dog shit and miller was bobby Bonilla.
    Come on. Nobody’s saying McD was shit.

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    Nash who is going to be a ufa. Gets you a 1st, spooner, Lindgren( decent prospect)

    Mcd and miller who are both under contract. Miller a decade younger. Mcd at 4.5m cap hit. No matter what anyone says is a steal. They get basically an extra conditional 2, and another little better prospect.

    Somebody please explain the values here. I would have to think both miller and mcd have more value than Nash. How can anyone say that is good value?

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    Tomas fucking tartar got a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd at the same deadline. Nick Holden was a 3rd. Grabner another ufa was a 2nd and a quality prospect. How do these deals equate to the return on two good players under contract that aren’t playing on bad contracts. One of which hasn’t even hit his prime yet. There was no reason to rush trading either.

    This deal is the kind you make when time runs out. Like Stepan when his no trade kicks in in days. Talbot and hagelin are other examples. I didn’t love those deals but I understood the return due to the timing. This deal should have been tabled. Tampa if they were desperate to improve to chase the cup should have folded not Gorton. You know kind of like how we trade our captain a first and a conditional second for a 40 year old.

    Even the conditional pick. When we were the buyer the condition was making the finals. For them it’s winning the whole damn thing. Wtf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Nash who is going to be a ufa. Gets you a 1st, spooner, Lindgren( decent prospect)

    Mcd and miller who are both under contract. Miller a decade younger. Mcd at 4.5m cap hit. No matter what anyone says is a steal. They get basically an extra conditional 2, and another little better prospect.

    Somebody please explain the values here. I would have to think both miller and mcd have more value than Nash. How can anyone say that is good value?
    Besides you leaving out the fact that we took half of Beleskey's contract off their hands and retained 50% of Nash's contract, comparing what Team A is willing to trade for Forward A to what Team B is willing to trade for D-man A and Forward B is silly. You have to believe Gorton made the best available deal. The team is going in a new direction. There is no guarantee a better deal will be available later. We got the best deal on the table for Nash. We got the best deal on the table for Mcd and Miller. We now have a bunch of picks and prospects that should be getting our attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Nash who is going to be a ufa. Gets you a 1st, spooner, Lindgren( decent prospect)

    Mcd and miller who are both under contract. Miller a decade younger. Mcd at 4.5m cap hit. No matter what anyone says is a steal. They get basically an extra conditional 2, and another little better prospect.

    Somebody please explain the values here. I would have to think both miller and mcd have more value than Nash. How can anyone say that is good value?
    I think this is precisely it. As for taking the Belesky contract and half of Nash's, that's half of Nash's for one pay period (irrelevant) and Belesky's contract is minor compared to real load stone contracts that are really difficult to get rid of. Moreover, Tampa in addition to two excellent assets, got a bargain contract (McD's last year). Every independent commentator I read thought Tampa got the better of this deal. None of those same people thought Boston or NJ got the better of the Nash and Grabner deals. That's the way it looks outside Rangerdome.
    Last edited by Sod16; 05-16-2018 at 04:05 PM.

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    They waited to get a better deal for Talbot and ended up fucking themselves out of a 1st. So, complain all you want, they did what they thought they needed to do when they needed to do it.

    The organization was not high on Miller. You don't know what's going on behind closed doors or what's been said about him around the league but the Rangers didn't like him. Doesn't matter if you think he has more value than Rick Nash, the market says he didn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sod16 View Post
    I think this is precisely it. As for taking the Belesky contract and half of Nash's, that's half of Nash's for one pay period (irrelevant) and Belesky's contract is minor compared to real load stone contracts that are really difficult to get rid of. Moreover, Tampa in addition to two excellent assets, got a bargain contract (McD's last year). Every independent commentator I read thought Tampa got the better of this deal. None of those same people thought Boston or NJ got the better of the Nash and Grabner deals. That's the way it looks outside Rangerdome.
    Retaining half of Nash's contract and taking Belesky was certainly not irrelevant to the Boston Bruins who would have been unable to make the deal and remain under the salary cap otherwise.

    The McDonagh/Miller deal also went right down to the wire. If the deal didn't go through, then the Rangers would have had to wait until the draft to move McDonagh, where they would have lost the rental value of his contract.

    Commentators can say who they think got the better of this type of deal, but it won't really be known until Howden and Hajek develop (or not). The deal has the potential to be bust for the Rangers. On the flipside, it also has similar potential to be a steal for them the way McDonagh's trade from Montreal was. Or perhaps, and to me this is most likely, the deal ends up working for both sides.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sod16 View Post
    I think this is precisely it. As for taking the Belesky contract and half of Nash's, that's half of Nash's for one pay period (irrelevant) and Belesky's contract is minor compared to real load stone contracts that are really difficult to get rid of. Moreover, Tampa in addition to two excellent assets, got a bargain contract (McD's last year). Every independent commentator I read thought Tampa got the better of this deal. None of those same people thought Boston or NJ got the better of the Nash and Grabner deals. That's the way it looks outside Rangerdome.
    Yeah totally irrelevant, except for the fact that Nash wouldn't have fit under the cap without the salary transactions. Boston had to trade Spooner (or another roster player) for cap reasons, plus with the retained salary they saved ~$700k which they really needed since they finished with ~$100k under the cap. So actually it was very relevant, and the trade couldn't have happened without it.

  19. #79
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    The return, as of now is not great. It’s about average if it’s being viewed now.

    Gorton did not get that one premium piece in the deal that surely all of us would have liked. Nor did he have to trade McD or Miller at the deadline. So if anyone criticizes him on either of those two points, it’s certainly fair. Warranted even.

    But it isn’t fair to completely damn the deal now, cause so may of the pieces in it are basically still unknown.

    That said, had he waited longer on dealing McD, he probably gets less. That’s usually how it works. The longer you wait, the less time the guy you’re moving has on his deal, generally speaking the less of a price the other team is willing to pay.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Nash who is going to be a ufa. Gets you a 1st, spooner, Lindgren( decent prospect)

    Mcd and miller who are both under contract. Miller a decade younger. Mcd at 4.5m cap hit. No matter what anyone says is a steal. They get basically an extra conditional 2, and another little better prospect.

    Somebody please explain the values here. I would have to think both miller and mcd have more value than Nash. How can anyone say that is good value?
    Spooner was a cap casualty. Boston had no plans on re-signing him, either.


    Also, these trades are closer to the Brassard - Zibs type of trade, get a bit younger, change of scenery guy entering RFA status, add a good pick. With it being the deadline, and multiple teams competing, you add in the prospects.

    McDonagh for Namestnikov, 1st, 2nd (Hajek)
    Miller for Howden

    sort our terms of the conditional pick to even it out.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

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