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Thread: Doubtful Spooner is in Rangers' Long-Term Plans

  1. #41
    Junior Member Mite Division RangersIn7's Avatar
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    In the McDonagh deal, it’s clear that Gorton wasn’t getting the elite piece he wanted, so he opted for 4-5 above average to good pieces, hoping for 1 to emerge as great, and hopefully 1 more to at least be a player. I think he wanted Sergachev or Point and couldn’t get them. I don’t think he wanted Koekkek or Foote. So if you want to say that he maybe got jobbed or that he should not have done the deal given that he didn’t have to and didn’t get an “Oh my God” piece, that’s very fair.

    But don’t make a final evaluation of the deal just yet. They’ve yet to do anything with either pick, we haven’t seen Hajek or Howden yet, and Namestnikov has played 20 games under a lame duck coach.

    Be patient

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangersIn7 View Post
    In the McDonagh deal, itís clear that Gorton wasnít getting the elite piece he wanted, so he opted for 4-5 above average to good pieces, hoping for 1 to emerge as great, and hopefully 1 more to at least be a player. I think he wanted Sergachev or Point and couldnít get them. I donít think he wanted Koekkek or Foote. So if you want to say that he maybe got jobbed or that he should not have done the deal given that he didnít have to and didnít get an ďOh my GodĒ piece, thatís very fair.

    But donít make a final evaluation of the deal just yet. Theyíve yet to do anything with either pick, we havenít seen Hajek or Howden yet, and Namestnikov has played 20 games under a lame duck coach.

    Be patient
    After the initial shock of not getting a ďbig nameĒ, itís still a huge return. Buchnevich Ďs new bff, Future top 6 center, future Stralman, a first and potentially another first for a third line winger and a defenseman that will be hurt most of next season.

    Namestnikov speaks Russian. By all accounts, heís a great guy,hard worker with a good personality. If we are rebuilding, take care of your assets. He will (could) help our future first line winger, our future #1 goalie, our future defenseman. Canít underestimate that
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  3. #43
    Senior Member Squirt Division jsrangers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    After the initial shock of not getting a “big name”, it’s still a huge return. Buchnevich ‘s new bff, Future top 6 center, future Stralman, a first and potentially another first for a third line winger and a defenseman that will be hurt most of next season.

    Namestnikov speaks Russian. By all accounts, he’s a great guy,hard worker with a good personality. If we are rebuilding, take care of your assets. He will (could) help our future first line winger, our future #1 goalie, our future defenseman. Can’t underestimate that
    Imo, most importantly he has to prove he's good at hockey here in NY, and to me he showed very little of that. Otherwise I'm sure they can find a greeter and translator to cover all these other things that aren't worth tying up a roster spot for.

  4. #44
    Junior Member Mite Division RangersIn7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    After the initial shock of not getting a “big name”, it’s still a huge return. Buchnevich ‘s new bff, Future top 6 center, future Stralman, a first and potentially another first for a third line winger and a defenseman that will be hurt most of next season.

    Namestnikov speaks Russian. By all accounts, he’s a great guy,hard worker with a good personality. If we are rebuilding, take care of your assets. He will (could) help our future first line winger, our future #1 goalie, our future defenseman. Can’t underestimate that
    I appreciate your optimism and that you have a realistic view in that there is a lot of options and potential there in spite of
    no clear cut elite piece

    But let’s not start sucking each other’s dicks just yet. We’ve no proof that any of these guys are anything in a Rangers uniform as of now.

    But I do think that they did pretty well and that it will be ok

  5. #45
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    Pretty clear to me that Miller's style of play works better in the playoffs (style...not production) than Names.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangersIn7 View Post
    I appreciate your optimism and that you have a realistic view in that there is a lot of options and potential there in spite of
    no clear cut elite piece

    But let’s not start sucking each other’s dicks just yet. We’ve no proof that any of these guys are anything in a Rangers uniform as of now.

    But I do think that they did pretty well and that it will be ok
    Ha ha. For now we'll try to raise Fatty's expectations a little and temper Josh's.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Pretty clear to me that Miller's style of play works better in the playoffs (style...not production) than Names.
    Dont worry, their playoff production is similarly bad.

    But thats irrelevant this season, next and maybe another 2.

    Pretty clear to me that Millers... anything wasnt going to help the next set of prospects adjust to the nhl
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Pretty clear to me that Miller's style of play works better in the playoffs (style...not production) than Names.
    I hate to pile on Names but his style definitely doesn't seem conducive to the playoffs. From what we saw in a small, somewhat tainted, portion I'm not even 100% sure his game is conducive to the NHL with us. I'm going to withhold final judgement on him until about January though...if I can be that patient.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Iím not forgetting. Hajek was the target supposedly. Also I have no problem with trading them. They just didnít have to do it by the deadline if the deal wasnít right. We will see. Like I already said Iím on with mcd for picks and prospects, even b prospects which they are. Miller for Namestnikov will never make sense no matter the circumstances. Miller has/ had more value then that and would have fetched more st the draft.
    I'll let Gorton fail on a couple of these deals before I start judging the prospects before we even see them. I'm hoping that he, or some of his trusted scouts, saw something in them that they really thought would make them key cogs. I'm not sure what grading them out as "b" prospects means either. Maybe some of our scouts have them rated as "A" prospects?

  10. #50
    Junior Member Mite Division RangersIn7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Ha ha. For now we'll try to raise Fatty's expectations a little and temper Josh's.
    LOL

    Everyone is entitled to their own expectations and ideals and viewpoints. Especially here.

    It’s just a hockey team.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    I hate to pile on Names but his style definitely doesn't seem conducive to the playoffs. From what we saw in a small, somewhat tainted, portion I'm not even 100% sure his game is conducive to the NHL with us. I'm going to withhold final judgement on him until about January though...if I can be that patient.

    What expectations are you putting on him? He’s been a 2-way, .5ppg Guy most of his career. Put him in the same basket as Anisimov.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Dont worry, their playoff production is similarly bad.

    But thats irrelevant this season, next and maybe another 2.

    Pretty clear to me that Millers... anything wasnt going to help the next set of prospects adjust to the nhl
    It's not irrelevant to the lightning.

    Unfair to think Miller's path to the NHL wouldn't help the next set of prospects. Unless you think Hayes/Vesey can teach them how to be a pro...not my cup of tea.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    What expectations are you putting on him? Heís been a 2-way, .5ppg Guy most of his career. Put him in the same basket as Anisimov.
    Yes that playoff beast AA...

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Yes that playoff beast AA...
    ??


    .
    .
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    It's not irrelevant to the lightning.

    Unfair to think Miller's path to the NHL wouldn't help the next set of prospects. Unless you think Hayes/Vesey can teach them how to be a pro...not my cup of tea.
    Hayes is involved with the young guys, now, and fills a top 6 spot. Doesnt mean he will be around, long term

    Don't care about vesey
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  16. #56
    Senior Member Squirt Division jsrangers's Avatar
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    I don't see anyway either Hayes or Vesey are ever considered any kind of leader. Far from it based on what I've seen. Vesey is purely a one way player who doesn't even do that well.

  17. #57
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    It’s not about expectations it’s about a players value. To me miller and Namestnikov is not equal value, not even close.

    A players ability to be born in a certain country or speak a certain language is a low bar to set. I’m sure there are plenty of guys we could have obtained for nothing who speak Russian.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    I'd like to respond on two levels.

    The first, I agree the overall return was lighter than hoped. Even after I tempered my expectations (no Sergachev for instance), it feels like Yzerman did very well. Particularly once we found out JT was part of the deal.

    That we were unable to get either Taylor Raddysh or Boris Katchouk (who was a monster in the playoffs) in that deal was shocking. We should have even given up on the condition on the 2019 pick and insisted on one of them.

    That said, we differ on a second aspect. The McD deal needed to happen and you are underrating Hajek, Howden and getting their #1, which looks like #29 but could have been better. Neither are B prospects, don't confuse them with the scraps we got from Boston.

    Howden, 27th overall in 2016 and has progressed nicely and appears on track to becoming a 2 or 3C in the NHL. This year he scored 75 points in 49 games, then had a strong playoff. Good leader, clutch scoring and all around game. He has raised his floor enough that it is hard to imagine him not meeting his baseline expectations.

    Hajek went 10 picks later (37th) but is also raising his floor as he appears to be on a legit path to eventually play a solid role here. Recently turned 20, he is already 6'2" 205lbs and plays an all around role on D. Looked good in U20 and has the tools. Not a sure thing, but he has improved his value since his draft. He'll get prime minutes in Hartford, as will Howden. I expect they'll both be Ranger regulars sometime during the 2019-20 season.
    I agree that mcd needed to be traded but it could have happened in the off season. As far as the prospects go it seems to me we asked for about 4-6 guys and were told no and we settled on what we got and yzerman made it sound like we were taking his first born. That said I have no problem with the return on mcd. Maybe our scouts are right and I will let that pan out over time. The miller/Namestnikov part was awful from day 1 and will grow worse by the day. I donít want to be accused of Monday morning quarterbacking so Iím calling it as it so obviously to me anyway see it.

  19. #59
    Senior Member Squirt Division Sod16's Avatar
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    It looks to me like Gorton was simply too committed to trading McD at the deadline. Unless he got an elite prospect, he should have just pulled back. Considering that McD and Miller were each vastly more valuable than Nash, especially considering their ages and contract statuses, we should have gotten a vastly bigger return than on the Nash trade. On its face, it does not look like we did. Yes, I know no trade can be fully evaluated until a future time. Heck, I guess Gomez could have turned out great in Montreal and McD might have been a bust, but this trade with Tampa does not look that great at this point.

  20. #60
    Junior Member Mite Division RangersIn7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sod16 View Post
    It looks to me like Gorton was simply too committed to trading McD at the deadline. Unless he got an elite prospect, he should have just pulled back. Considering that McD and Miller were each vastly more valuable than Nash, especially considering their ages and contract statuses, we should have gotten a vastly bigger return than on the Nash trade. On its face, it does not look like we did. Yes, I know no trade can be fully evaluated until a future time. Heck, I guess Gomez could have turned out great in Montreal and McD might have been a bust, but this trade with Tampa does not look that great at this point.
    No. It doesn’t look great

    But it doesn’t look bad either.

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