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Thread: Rangers’ Should Alter Draft Lottery Fate

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    All depends. If we draft 2 and 9, I'm okay without Zib, especially if we're going after Tavares...
    I see it as the first time in an eon we have a chance at having two top-tier centers at their respective positions. I would cut elsewhere before I let a player that talented go. I also don't see one of those teams going for Zibs+ in place of their top pick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    All depends. If we draft 2 and 9, I'm okay without Zib, especially if we're going after Tavares...
    No because what if Tavares doesn't sign here? Which is a GOOD possibility. Just because we want him, doesn't mean it happens.

    Even if Tavares signed, we'd still have 1 good NHL ready center. That's the opposite of what we should be doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    No because what if Tavares doesn't sign here? Which is a GOOD possibility. Just because we want him, doesn't mean it happens.

    Even if Tavares signed, we'd still have 1 good NHL ready center. That's the opposite of what we should be doing.
    Names isn't an nhl ready center? In this scenario, If Tavares doesn't sign, you're basically trading Zib for Svechinkov. This isn't a bad plan B if Tavares goes elsewhere.

    Kovalchuk - Names - Svechinkov
    Kreider - Chytil - Buch
    Andersson - Hayes - Zucc

    Again, like I said, I'd prefer to keep Zib, but at his age with his contract he has a lot more value than Hayes. If Carolina would take Hayes, the #26, plus another RFA that'd be great. But, as much as the organization expects to compete for a playoff spot next year, we're rebuilding. If trading Zib and a later pick or two lands you the #2 and 9 pick this year you gotta jump on it.

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    It’s hard to justify trading that much for a wing prospect. I would think you could trade much less for an established proven winger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Names isn't an nhl ready center? In this scenario, If Tavares doesn't sign, you're basically trading Zib for Svechinkov. This isn't a bad plan B if Tavares goes elsewhere.

    Kovalchuk - Names - Svechinkov
    Kreider - Chytil - Buch
    Andersson - Hayes - Zucc


    Again, like I said, I'd prefer to keep Zib, but at his age with his contract he has a lot more value than Hayes. If Carolina would take Hayes, the #26, plus another RFA that'd be great. But, as much as the organization expects to compete for a playoff spot next year, we're rebuilding. If trading Zib and a later pick or two lands you the #2 and 9 pick this year you gotta jump on it.
    After Namestnikov's time with the Rangers you're ready to make him the #1 center? Did we watch different players?

    I would not sign up for this roster next season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    After Namestnikov's time with the Rangers you're ready to make him the #1 center? Did we watch different players?

    I would not sign up for this roster next season.
    I do agree with this but at the same time I think Zib lacks a lot of the ingredients of a proper #1 center. He's a bit mercurial, goes cold and hot, is questionable in his own zone and lacks presence on the ice. If you look at the actual #1 centers in this league he's nowhere near to be fair.

    I'm with Josh in that I'd like to see him on the wing. I think you could see a significant upturn in production from him if he's no longer responsible of centering his line, a la Giroux.
    That obviously requires bringing in a center to take his place however.

    As for Namestnikov, he was underwhelming since the trade. But he's shown he's a good foil for two talented players and I'd like to see som ins and outs before making a call on him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    It’s hard to justify trading that much for a wing prospect. I would think you could trade much less for an established proven winger.
    It's more then 'a porven winger'. What would you trade for Laine or Seguin?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    After Namestnikov's time with the Rangers you're ready to make him the #1 center? Did we watch different players?

    I would not sign up for this roster next season.
    First, I watched Names play for AV on a crap team with different linemates every other game after getting traded from the best team in the league to one of the worst. I also watched him paced 60 points playing consistently with good players.

    Second that line up is worst case scenario, what does it look like if you don't make the trade?

    Kovalchuk - Zib - Zucc
    Kreider - Chytil - Buch
    Andersson - Hayes - Vesey

    Is that better? I'd rather have Svechinkov in there if that option is on the table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    I do agree with this but at the same time I think Zib lacks a lot of the ingredients of a proper #1 center. He's a bit mercurial, goes cold and hot, is questionable in his own zone and lacks presence on the ice. If you look at the actual #1 centers in this league he's nowhere near to be fair.

    I'm with Josh in that I'd like to see him on the wing. I think you could see a significant upturn in production from him if he's no longer responsible of centering his line, a la Giroux.
    That obviously requires bringing in a center to take his place however.

    As for Namestnikov, he was underwhelming since the trade. But he's shown he's a good foil for two talented players and I'd like to see som ins and outs before making a call on him.
    I agree regarding Namestnikov, that was big scenery change for him, I’d like to give a fresh start from training camp to judge what he really is
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    Pacing 60 points between 2 of the leagues elite goal scorers...have a hard time believing he'll crack 40ish here.

    Anything is possible, I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    It's more then 'a porven winger'. What would you trade for Laine or Seguin?
    How is either Svechnikov or Zadina proven? Zib, 9 overall and the 26th overall is a lot for anyone. Build around centers and defenseman not wings. I don’t have a problem paying a cost to get a star wing but that is way to much. Especially for a team with as many holes as the rangers. That 9 overall is going to get you a core player going forward, with plenty of top rhd available, at least it should. Good rhd are not easy to find either and we will have an opportunity to draft one for nothing. It may not be sexy and unless someone falls unexpectedly it’s the smart move imo.

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    I wont trade Zib, 9th and 26th for 2nd. Thats crazy. A healthy Mika on a solid team can be a 30/30 player. The 9th would be Wahlstrom/Kotkaniemi or a very promising D + another first rounder for Svechnikov? No thanks.

    Mika, #26, 2nd is the most I give, and that won't come close I guess.

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    Zib has too many concussions, move him before something serious happens.
    Don’t have any trade proposals, not good with evaluating value of players.
    Rebuild Mode.

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    Much as many out there have speculated and desired a trade up this draft, myself included, once the draft order came out it seemed unlikely that any team up in the top-5 would actually come off their pick. And if they did, the price would be astronomical or the Rangers would not have all the pieces needed to pull it off.

    Those who have pointed out that it’s a deep draft, especially through the top-10 seem like they’ll be proven right.

    At this point, Gorton should just be patient, explore all the options, kick tires, and just see what all os available to them and what the costs are to make a given move.

    That said, if there’s a guy they absolutely love in the draft and they’d have to move up to get him, then they should take a long look at that.
    I
    It’s going to be very interesting seeing what transpires over the next 6-7 weeks leading into the Draft

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    I don’t know that Zibanejad plus 9 overall plus another 1st rounder gets it done to move to 2. I know Carolina has a deep system now, and they may be looking for an established vet or two for those kids to play with as they continue to come up. But the number 2 pick is a huge asset. Hard to deal that for quantity over quality, which is what that deal leans more towards

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    How is either Svechnikov or Zadina proven? Zib, 9 overall and the 26th overall is a lot for anyone. Build around centers and defenseman not wings. I don’t have a problem paying a cost to get a star wing but that is way to much. Especially for a team with as many holes as the rangers. That 9 overall is going to get you a core player going forward, with plenty of top rhd available, at least it should. Good rhd are not easy to find either and we will have an opportunity to draft one for nothing. It may not be sexy and unless someone falls unexpectedly it’s the smart move imo.
    I never included the #9....

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    Sorry I misread that. If Carolina was crazy enough to take zib plus the 26 for the 2 then yes I’m in.

    The hockey news does have an article speculating that Carolina would be open to trading down. I would think zib and the 26 th would even come close to what others offer or what would entice them to move. Adding a ranger rfa wouldn’t help much because none of them other than maybe skeij has any real value and his stock has dropped. Besides adding skeij would really create a hole for the rangers and I doubt anyone here would want him included in a deal like that.

    Both Svechnikov and Zadina are probably going to be great players. But remember brendl and yakopov. Svechnikov is a pretty safe bet Zadina though has bust potential. I doubt he does but he’s got holes to his game that can cause a coach to lack trust in him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodka Drunkenski View Post
    I agree regarding Namestnikov, that was big scenery change for him, I’d like to give a fresh start from training camp to judge what he really is
    This is definitely the best approach with Names.

    Here is a very enlightening piece about the strength of his game ,which goes underappreciated. When you watch Names, you can see why he is one of the best players at both exiting the zone and entering. We need a coach who recognizes the players and lines strengths.

    I was hoping we'd do this with JT Miller, another year here with a new coach. But I guess mgmt felt his attitude was too far gone. Hopefully another year and a new coach give Hayes and Vesey a lift. Unless a trade returns something we really need, let the new coach work with them and find a fit. Give the coaches/mgmt some time to evaluate. Better not just to dump a player because he disapointed under AV or is an RFA.
    Last edited by Giacomin; 05-08-2018 at 02:27 PM.

  19. #139
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    I don't really get the idea that he needs a clean slate or whatever, we know what Namestnikov is. He's a 40-point, two-way, possession player who only warrants a spot on a first line if it's a compliment to two All-Star calibre players. If he's a top-six center, you're in trouble, but he's an excellent third-line player on a team that has strong top-six scoring.

    The idea that he's an offensive driver who can't score just means that he's a good third liner. Jesper Fast is good at zone exits and entries too. That article has good data, but says pretty bluntly that he's not a top line player.

    The immediate thing that catches the eye is that he just doesn’t score. Primary scoring rate is a key indicator for forwards and Namestnikov struggles in that area. He scored at the pace of a low-end third-liner this season.
    He isn’t much of a shooter and doesn’t often contribute to the most dangerous kinds of shots.
    He's been in the league for 5 years, I don't think we're going to learn much about him that we don't already know, and it's less likely that he turns into a bonafide top-six player. I think the fact that he played hard for like 4 games and then totally quit the remainder of the season tells us more than anything we'd learn with a new coach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    I don't really get the idea that he needs a clean slate or whatever
    I did not mean Names or Spooner need a clean slate. I meant that more for the others. Names needs linemates that benefit from his game and a coach that knows how to maximize player's strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Otherwise I agree with the rest of your post.

    We kinda know what Namestnikov is. He brings possession play, play-making passes, PKer, hockey sense, very good skating and solid D. Above all, he brings positional and line flexibility. So he is open to fit into a spot that really works depending on the coach and system. And obviously the choice of linemates and matchups the coaches assign. That is what I mean.

    Same for Hayes, Vesey, and Buch. The roles carved out for them is important going forward. These are vets now, the coach needs to construct their roles in preseason.

    The idea that he's an offensive driver who can't score just means that he's a good third liner. Jesper Fast is good at zone exits and entries too. That article has good data, but says pretty bluntly that he's not a top line player.
    Well exactly. The article has excellent info and a perspective worth reading. If what you glean is that he and Fast make for excellent third liners, that's good. Even if it just validates what you alright thought.

    Looking deeper though, the article opens eyes to the types of players who might benefit from his game. Like wingers who have lethal shots or guys who can cut to the net and get their stick on incoming pucks or find open spaces. He can cover for very offensive or physical players who might get caught deep.

    He's been in the league for 5 years, I don't think we're going to learn much about him that we don't already know, and it's less likely that he turns into a bonafide top-six player. I think the fact that he played hard for like 4 games and then totally quit the remainder of the season tells us more than anything we'd learn with a new coach.
    Just entering his prime. A good coach and some talent and structure will help him immensely.

    He did start like gangbusters and then fell off. He seemed to maintain a very upbeat attitude throughout. Do you think he is a quitter or that it was really indicative of a character flaw? Not sure I want to draw that conclusion. Feel free to elaborate.

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