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Thread: Dolan: "I donít think we had great leadership last year"

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Mailing it in this year and trying to compete next year feels rushed. Why not give the Hajek and Howdens a year in the A, get another high pick, and come loaded in 2019-20?

    When I say uncertainty it means their plan is to sign JT and trade for EK65. Those aren't "locks".

    Every team is trying to compete. Let's not mistake that. Buffalo didn't plan on being the worst team this year. Maybe they mailed it in once the wheels fell off but their management thought they had a good team. I did too, in September. Rangers will do the same but with some stipulation.

    If you can get a top line center like Tavares, I think you get him. He's not available next summer -- which would be best for our timeline -- he's available now. He may not be the "final piece" to a cup, but he could be the starting piece. Whether or not he wants to be that is another story.

    Trading for Karlsson makes absolutely no sense unless they're giving him away. So I'll hold off from commenting on that until there's more because I don't really believe they'll push hard for him.

    Per Hajek and Howden, I'm working under the assumption they won't make the NHL team next year. Like you said. No rush.
    FIRE VIGNEAULT

  2. #42
    Senior Member Squirt Division jsrangers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Answer? Answer to what? The team sucks. They have half a roster. You need someone to play the games. If Kovalchuk wants to come here, why not him? You said "more of the same" but I'm not sure what the means. More of the same of what?

    Resigning Grabner and Nash and hanging on to Zucc would be more of the same. Trading all our first round picks would be more of the same. Having a young roster with a few vets sprinkled in would not. What does it matter if its Kovalchuk or anyone else?

    You're going way down the rabbit hole on what-ifs. There's no chance all these rumors come to fruition. And I don't think anyone is under the impression this team is playing for the cup next year. Dolan himself said he hopes they can finish 8th. Not really a lofty expectation if you ask me.
    Simple - bringing in a guy years too late and for what to put a small bit of polish on a huge turd to maybe help squeeze into the 8th slot? Hell we've never seen that before now have we?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsrangers View Post
    Simple - bringing in a guy years too late and for what to put a small bit of polish on a huge turd to maybe help squeeze into the 8th slot? Hell we've never seen that before now have we?
    I mean, if a team full of young guys is a turd then you're in for some shit.

    Who do you propose actually play the games while most of the prospects play in the AHL, College, KHL, etc. next season?
    FIRE VIGNEAULT

  4. #44
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    Somebody should tell Dolan that leadership starts with him and heís been a disaster from day 1 here.

    The rangers owe hank nothing and hank owes the rangers nothing.

    Stating they want to contend next year is hopefully just window dressing. Any serious franchise or gm understands you cannot rebuild in six months and expect a good ending to your efforts. This team should stay clear of all long term contracts rebuild their foundation and depth. Maybe they get lucky a draft a franchise player if not this summer is not the time to chase one whoís 27 or older.

    The rangers did it right last time. They just happened to have a rejuvenated jagr walk through the door and a kid come out of nowhere to take the crease to lessen the growing pains. Years later they officially went all in by trading some of that depth for the player that would put them over the top. Rick Nash one of the games premier goal scorers and power forwards. It just didnít happen but it was the right model. The biggest mistake was not knowing when to show restraint in the latter years ala yandle, Staal, etc. this francise would be in much better shape if they had.

    Regardless the ďsuccessĒ this franchise likes to boast about for the past 14 years or so was not built overnight. It took time to become a contender. There is no shortcut here when you are on such a weak foundation.
    Last edited by Fatfrancesa; 04-20-2018 at 07:03 PM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    Every team is trying to compete. Let's not mistake that. Buffalo didn't plan on being the worst team this year. Maybe they mailed it in once the wheels fell off but their management thought they had a good team. I did too, in September. Rangers will do the same but with some stipulation.

    If you can get a top line center like Tavares, I think you get him. He's not available next summer -- which would be best for our timeline -- he's available now. He may not be the "final piece" to a cup, but he could be the starting piece. Whether or not he wants to be that is another story.

    Trading for Karlsson makes absolutely no sense unless they're giving him away. So I'll hold off from commenting on that until there's more because I don't really believe they'll push hard for him.

    Per Hajek and Howden, I'm working under the assumption they won't make the NHL team next year. Like you said. No rush.
    Every team is realistic about their chances tho.

    It's also not as simple as "If you want JT, get him." He has to want to come here.

    They wanted Chara and Guerin, who both laughed at playing for us.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Somebody should tell Dolan that leadership starts with him and he’s been a disaster from day 1 here.

    The rangers owe hank nothing and hank owes the rangers nothing.

    Stating they want to contend next year is hopefully just window dressing. Any serious franchise or gm understands you cannot rebuild in six months and expect a good ending to your efforts. This team should stay clear of all long term contracts rebuild their foundation and depth. Maybe they get lucky a draft a franchise player if not this summer is not the time to chase one who’s 27 or older.

    The rangers did it right last time. They just happened to have a rejuvenated jagr walk through the door and a kid come out of nowhere to take the crease to lessen the growing pains. Years later they officially went all in by trading some of that depth for the player that would put them over the top. Rick Nash one of the games premier goal scorers and power forwards. It just didn’t happen but it was the right model. The biggest mistake was not knowing when to show restraint in the latter years ala yandle, Staal, etc. this francise would be in much better shape if they had.

    Regardless the “success” this franchise likes to boast about for the past 14 years or so was not built overnight. It took time to become a contender. There is no shortcut here when you are on such a weak foundation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Every team is realistic about their chances tho.

    It's also not as simple as "If you want JT, get him." He has to want to come here.

    They wanted Chara and Guerin, who both laughed at playing for us.
    Yes both nailed it.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Every team is realistic about their chances tho.

    It's also not as simple as "If you want JT, get him." He has to want to come here.

    They wanted Chara and Guerin, who both laughed at playing for us.
    Agreed. That's exactly what I said. I just don't think it's "rushing" anything to bring him or someone like him in. In fact, I think it's necessary to have someone like that.
    FIRE VIGNEAULT

  8. #48
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    huge difference between chasing JT and Kovalchuk, that's the other side of what I said. Kovalchuk is a band-aid to a compound fracture.

  9. #49
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    They should be patient on any big dollar, high-price acquisition, be it trade or FA. No matter how “accelerated” this re-build is, it’s wholly unrealistic to think they’re going to be contending for anything more than a WC berth and an earlier playoff exit for probably a minimum of 2 seasons. And that’s an optimistic view. With the amount of very young and inexperienced players they’re going to bring in and play, growing pains should very much be expected.

    Even with a J.T. or Karlsson, or the now seemingly available Drew Doughty, they still have major holes and question marks.

    I’d want no part of moving major pieces like picks and prospects for Doughty or Karlsson right now. If however, they like where they are next season, those 2 are both UFA next summer.

    I’m all about them taking their lumps with the kids and seeing what happens.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsrangers View Post
    huge difference between chasing JT and Kovalchuk, that's the other side of what I said. Kovalchuk is a band-aid to a compound fracture.
    He's not getting a big deal. I just don't understand what the problem is. 2 year deal? What's the harm? He's a warm body and can maybe help the russian players transition to NA.
    FIRE VIGNEAULT

  11. #51
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    I don’t have a problem with it. However the angst I have is that Kovalchuk signals what the rangers have always done. I want and expect patience. Kovalchuk on his own is no problem. If it’s just part of a broader plan to try and buy their way into contention then Gorton can go f himself.

    The rumors surrounding J.T. and Karlsson along with Kovalchuk make me nervous that once again this franchise refuses to allow anyone to take them as serious hockey people rather than producers on broadway

  12. #52
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    But they have to buy someone. They have 7 NHL forwards.
    FIRE VIGNEAULT

  13. #53
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    If you have a problem with the rangers acquiring 1 or 3 of the top players this league has seen in the last decade because of the stigma of how other fans will comment about your team on twitter, you have some personal issues you need to overcome.

    You build the best team you can. Picks, prospects, trades, doesn't matter.

    And this season , they need to get something or you'll see a worse product next season , and at that point, the hole is going to be harder to climb out of
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  14. #54
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    There’s actually a very good case to be made to not sign each one of them. I see both sides to all but Karlsson. But damn me for trying to discuss it without getting insulted by the resident tough guy who claims I have personal issues as he describes players on this team as Giant Vaginas.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    If you have a problem with the rangers acquiring 1 or 3 of the top players this league has seen in the last decade because of the stigma of how other fans will comment about your team on twitter, you have some personal issues you need to overcome.

    You build the best team you can. Picks, prospects, trades, doesn't matter.

    And this season , they need to get something or you'll see a worse product next season , and at that point, the hole is going to be harder to climb out of
    I have a problem with trading a ton of shit for Karlsson when we can have him or Doughty for nothing but money in a year.

    Sign JT. Sign Kovy (although it's insanity to expect more than a 25/25 season from him, IMO). You have to put a team on the ice.

    Trading any assets for EK is a huge mistake IMO, unless they somehow recoup them in a trade for Shattenkirk.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I have a problem with trading a ton of shit for Karlsson when we can have him or Doughty for nothing but money in a year.

    Sign JT. Sign Kovy (although it's insanity to expect more than a 25/25 season from him, IMO). You have to put a team on the ice.

    Trading any assets for EK is a huge mistake IMO, unless they somehow recoup them in a trade for Shattenkirk.
    Agreed with all this.
    A player such as JT simply doesn't become avail very often. I'm not interested in taking a step backwards in regards to depth of prospects/picks for EK
    Kovi i'm 50/50 on with a short contract.

  17. #57
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    i hate dolan but think in this case he is spot on.

    i'm all in on JT. i'd wait a year and go after Doughty. The man's made for Broadway.

  18. #58
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    Leadership and intangibles may be important to a degree. But for a few bounces in the LAK/NYR Finals though, McDonough would have been a Stanley Cup captain. There was a point in that series had AV lost his shit about his goalie getting run, may be the refs take a harder look and things play out differently. In that a lack of leadership, or simply a coach not capable of handling strategy in the moment? And Messier, for all his leadership, could not get some lousy NYR teams into the playoffs in his second stint here. In 1997, NYR had Messier, Leetch, Graves and a bunch of 1994 vets and Wayne Gretzky and still couldn't get past the Lindros Flyers in an ECF. And if Messier doesn't score a hat trick late in game 6 vs. the Devils, is he still a great leader? Was that leadership or a great player being in the moment.

    AV was a blasted fool to not be more hands on about the lockerroom. But you have to also understand talent matters. And all the leadership, chemistry and other such unmeasurables are sometimes things sportswriters tell us all about after the fact. Haven't heard of a losing team with great leadership and wonderful chemistry.

  19. #59
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    McDonagh wasn’t a captain, then.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  20. #60
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    Just my humble opinion, but something's seriously wrong if the captaincy doesn't go to Zook. Guy literally suffered brain damage and came back like a man possessed for one of his best seasons. He has always showed up and he deserves the recognition.

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