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Thread: Dolan: "I donít think we had great leadership last year"

  1. #21
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    King, I hear ya, this is exactly what the Knicks should have done with Carmelo Anthony. Yet, he may have gone to the Nets because players do not like to risk injury for that season and playoffs, just to wait for UFA. Karlsson may prefer the Rangers, but his 2nd or 3rd choice might be willing to sign his new contract almost immediately. That is a big insurance policy for one's family and a bird in the hand. Plus, then he is not jumping Ottawa to rental to perm home. It becomes Ottawa to new home. A much easier/stable transition.

    Karlsson being traded to the team that is offering his new contract is the likely scenario here. If we want him, we'll have to trade for him. I'd rather eat the ice cream too, but I prefer to wake up feeling good the next day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    The Sens have ZERO leverage here (which is why clauses are dumb).
    They have some. Very little, though. His clause allows him to select ten teams he won't go to. That gives them a sizable field, likely of most of the contenders and big markets, to set a market with.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    They have some. Very little, though. His clause allows him to select ten teams he won't go to. That gives them a sizable field, likely of most of the contenders and big markets, to set a market with.
    They have enough to expect that they trade him on or before draft day for as many picks and high quality prospects they can get. The owner really does not want any salary back at all. ELCs, prospects and picks. Melnyk may also get his wish to ditch Ryan's contract.

    Are we really the right team to be giving up many of our cheap quality assets and tons of long term cap space?

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    Quote Originally Posted by torontonyr View Post
    Kovalchuk. He's about as "ovy" as you get without being "ovy". This doesn't make for great captaincy, per se, as much as it does having a win at all costs player in the lockeroom which is what we desire.

    Partner that with JT and a couple of other players from within the org (andersson) and we're reestablishing the culture.
    neither has won anything at this level as a leader. Ovy plays with much more heart and edge imo. He's also a few years younger, we can spin it many different way but Kovalchuk signed a massive deal and walked away - that's bs a totally selfish move, hardly the type of move a true leader would make. Did it benefit the Devils in the long run cap wise, sure did. Do you think they signed him with the intention of his disappearing - no hardly. Having watched a boatload of Devils games too he's often lazy floater, who needed to be reminded there were two sides to the puck - that's a real leadership quality. IF he comes here I hope he succeeds but I hate the thought. A 35 year old one-way player that hasn't played in this grinding league in years to me is something we've tried in the past (where we've gotten guys a year or three too late). I don't think he's a part of the answer to a long term solution which is bringing this team full circle and back to a cup contending team. I think it's a desperate move, and IF the guy wants to win as he say why the hell would he come here now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    They have enough to expect that they trade him on or before draft day for as many picks and high quality prospects they can get. The owner really does not want any salary back at all. ELCs, prospects and picks. Melnyk may also get his wish to ditch Ryan's contract.

    Are we really the right team to be giving up many of our cheap quality assets and tons of long term cap space?
    The answer to that question hinges entirely on what your expectations of next season are. Like I wrote about, if the goal is getting back to the playoffs and/or becoming a contender while Lundqvist is viable (which clearly appears to be the case), then yes. It's a damn the torpedos situation. Of course a traditional rebuild would bear more fruit, but they clearly have little interest in a prolonged tenure at the bottom. For good reason. Lundqvist.

    Or as McKenzie quipped, “At the end of the day, New York is New York and the Rangers are the Rangers.”
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    Makes you wonder what they think of Igor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Makes you wonder what they think of Igor.
    What do you mean?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    What do you mean?
    I guess I'm just wondering if they really felt he was a stud, why put so much emphasis on an immediate return to the playoffs vs. rebuilding the right way (which according to Dolan they wanted to do it like Chicago and Pitt did)?

    Do they feel obligated to win one for Hank?

    Do they not think the heir apparent is that good?

    Is it playoff revenue?

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    Well Igor is at least one more year away from the NHL, right? Maybe it's an issue of wanting to give Hank every opportunity to win now, this coming season, knowing it might be his last as the sure fire starter?


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  10. #30
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    I just don't think there's a realistic scenario to become a serious contender next year or even too. Could they continue down the same previous path of trying to paste together parts and pieces to still come up short of the ultimate goal - sure, and at the expense of doing it the right way with younger players and draft picks that will ned time to grow. I was really hoping this time was different. I love Hank but I'm not convinced he's not on a sharper decline that we had hoped and thought. His play was dreadful at times, the team around him was borderline junk, that may not change much on the back end but still he wasn't good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I guess I'm just wondering if they really felt he was a stud, why put so much emphasis on an immediate return to the playoffs vs. rebuilding the right way (which according to Dolan they wanted to do it like Chicago and Pitt did)?

    Do they feel obligated to win one for Hank?

    Do they not think the heir apparent is that good?

    Is it playoff revenue?
    They're not worried. They offered to Hank an out and he didn't take it. If he said yes they would move him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    They're not worried. They offered to Hank an out and he didn't take it. If he said yes they would move him.
    So what's the rush to try and build this in a year when there is no clear path to do that (too much uncertainty around bagging the big UFAs or trade targets).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    The answer to that question hinges entirely on what your expectations of next season are. Like I wrote about, if the goal is getting back to the playoffs and/or becoming a contender while Lundqvist is viable (which clearly appears to be the case), then yes. It's a damn the torpedos situation. Of course a traditional rebuild would bear more fruit, but they clearly have little interest in a prolonged tenure at the bottom. For good reason. Lundqvist.

    Or as McKenzie quipped, “At the end of the day, New York is New York and the Rangers are the Rangers.”
    The expectations seemed to be to rebuild the Rangers into a Stanley Cup winner through youth, skill, speed and character.

    There was some color added here and there. About having traded picks and now using the strength of the draft and putting in the hard work. That Gorton was not only looking for picks and prospects, but some players closer to ready or current NHLers. That we were going to try and win/ make playoffs and not looking for long rebuild. IOW, no planned tanking.

    Then there is the elephant from Dolan, which may tell us something. Paraphrasing, he said there is no reason to not think we can't make the playoffs as the 7th or 8th seed. What does that tell you?

    It tells me we are not going to get both Tavares and Karlsson, then Kovy to boot. Getting both, plus Kovy means we are going for the Cup this year right? But he didn't say that. Maybe Dolan just wants one marquee star and playoff revenue, while we build through the draft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    So what's the rush to try and build this in a year when there is no clear path to do that (too much uncertainty around bagging the big UFAs or trade targets).
    Exactly. They could probably piece together a team that squeaks into the playoffs only to get bounced early, so what changed from the last few years. They will have accomplished nothing in the big picture nd to me that's the worst case scenario. All the talk about doing it right and it sure sounds like more of the same is still a likely option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    So what's the rush to try and build this in a year when there is no clear path to do that (too much uncertainty around bagging the big UFAs or trade targets).
    I don't get the sense that there's a rush. There's much uncertainty in everything, isn't there? I mean look at Edmonton and Phx. They're "doing it the right way" and still sucking ass year after year, meanwhile other teams are proving it doesn't need to be so.

    Dolan specifically said he "thinks" they can finished 8th. I mean, that's not really a rush job. That's being hopeful that every player takes a step forward and you get a little luck. They're hoping to do what the Devils and Flyers did which is a fair goal IMO.

    I think they'll bring in young kids with older "leaders" to show them the way. To me, that's the right way to do it. I assume they'll do their homework on players like Tavares and Kovalchuck. Realistically, they'll need to fill out the lineup somehow. It can't be all draft picks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsrangers View Post
    Exactly. They could probably piece together a team that squeaks into the playoffs only to get bounced early, so what changed from the last few years. They will have accomplished nothing in the big picture nd to me that's the worst case scenario. All the talk about doing it right and it sure sounds like more of the same is still a likely option.
    It's not the same at all. A young, inexperienced team squeezing into the playoffs after a season of serious growing pains is not the same as an old, slow, tired team that's been there 9 out of 10 seasons. It's actually a stark contrast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsrangers View Post
    I just don't think there's a realistic scenario to become a serious contender next year or even too. Could they continue down the same previous path of trying to paste together parts and pieces to still come up short of the ultimate goal - sure, and at the expense of doing it the right way with younger players and draft picks that will ned time to grow. I was really hoping this time was different. I love Hank but I'm not convinced he's not on a sharper decline that we had hoped and thought. His play was dreadful at times, the team around him was borderline junk, that may not change much on the back end but still he wasn't good.
    Totally agree. When I said Hank didn't have "it", that was certainly vague but I didn't want to list the plethora of weaknesses he's shown this season. Because he's so beloved by the majority of N.Y. fans, I feel the need to refrain from criticizing his play on the ice. The defensive breakdown excuse was all too prevalent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    I don't get the sense that there's a rush. There's much uncertainty in everything, isn't there? I mean look at Edmonton and Phx. They're "doing it the right way" and still sucking ass year after year, meanwhile other teams are proving it doesn't need to be so.

    Dolan specifically said he "thinks" they can finished 8th. I mean, that's not really a rush job. That's being hopeful that every player takes a step forward and you get a little luck. They're hoping to do what the Devils and Flyers did which is a fair goal IMO.

    I think they'll bring in young kids with older "leaders" to show them the way. To me, that's the right way to do it. I assume they'll do their homework on players like Tavares and Kovalchuck. Realistically, they'll need to fill out the lineup somehow. It can't be all draft picks.
    Mailing it in this year and trying to compete next year feels rushed. Why not give the Hajek and Howdens a year in the A, get another high pick, and come loaded in 2019-20?

    When I say uncertainty it means their plan is to sign JT and trade for EK65. Those aren't "locks".

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    It's not the same at all. A young, inexperienced team squeezing into the playoffs after a season of serious growing pains is not the same as an old, slow, tired team that's been there 9 out of 10 seasons. It's actually a stark contrast.
    If you're plan is thinking they're going to role Kovalchuk in here as some kind of answer that's a short sighted approach to me. I can't not see any scenario where they land Taveras and EK and for EK at what price gutting a bunch of draft picks and cost controlled players while probably being forced to take on Ryan? That's a great plan and more of the same. The only easy get is probably Kovalchuk (which is more of the same). Even getting all three of those guys which won't happen doesn't make them a cup team. I just don't think there's any short cut to the ultimate goal. Getting Taveras at a high cap hit is the best of the three long term. On the flip side IF he wants to win he's not coming here to begin with. I still think the odds favor him staying where he is.

    Stay the course and do it through unloading the dead wood and go with a youth movement we already know the other approach didn't work.

    As for Dolan he's resume with the knicks and rangers is one of futility in the big picture. So the less he says the better. He should stick to fighting with Oakley, that's what he's most known for the last few years along with throwing people (Hornacek and others) under the bus.
    Last edited by jsrangers; 04-20-2018 at 06:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsrangers View Post
    If you're plan is thinking they're going to role Kovalchuk in here as some kind of answer that's a short sighted approach to me. I can't not see any scenario where they land Taveras and EK and for EK at what price gutting a bunch of draft picks and cost controlled players while probably being forced to take on Ryan? That's a great plan and more of the same. The only easy get is probably Kovalchuk (which is more of the same). Even getting all three of those guys which won't happen doesn't make them a cup team. I just don't think there's any short cut to the ultimate goal. Getting Taveras at a high cap hit is the best of the three long term. On the flip side IF he wants to win he's not coming here to begin with. I still think the odds favor him staying where he is.

    Stay the course and do it through unloading the dead wood and go with a youth movement we already know the other approach didn't work.

    As for Dolan he's resume with the knicks and rangers is one of futility in the big picture. So the less he says the better. He should stick to fighting with Oakley, that's what he's most known for the last few years along with throwing people (Hornacek and others) under the bus.
    Answer? Answer to what? The team sucks. They have half a roster. You need someone to play the games. If Kovalchuk wants to come here, why not him? You said "more of the same" but I'm not sure what the means. More of the same of what?

    Resigning Grabner and Nash and hanging on to Zucc would be more of the same. Trading all our first round picks would be more of the same. Having a young roster with a few vets sprinkled in would not. What does it matter if its Kovalchuk or anyone else?

    You're going way down the rabbit hole on what-ifs. There's no chance all these rumors come to fruition. And I don't think anyone is under the impression this team is playing for the cup next year. Dolan himself said he hopes they can finish 8th. Not really a lofty expectation if you ask me.
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