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Thread: NY GIANTS DISCUSSION

  1. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Not to be that guy, but the Giants weren't ever going to be a good team this year, folks. Success this year is Saquon establishing himself as the best in the biz, Jones getting a few games and looking alright doing it, and a top 5 pick.
    If anyone thought differently than this, they just set themselves up for disappointment. The defense was very bad on paper going into the season, and it showed it on the field. It didn't and doesn't matter much if the offense is better than last year. They won't win many with this defense. We need progression from the young guys on that side of the ball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RodrigueGabriel View Post
    Thought that was the ever-so-short-lived Stills Young Band.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Not to be that guy, but the Giants weren't ever going to be a good team this year, folks. Success this year is Saquon establishing himself as the best in the biz, Jones getting a few games and looking alright doing it, and a top 5 pick.
    They should just trade Saquon and cement the #2 overall now. The haul you get for him AND that pick is franchise changing.

    The only thing Saquon is doing right now is getting them to 3 wins...maybe. But they have so few core players that they should be going full Dolphin right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    They should just trade Saquon and cement the #2 overall now. The haul you get for him AND that pick is franchise changing.

    The only thing Saquon is doing right now is getting them to 3 wins...maybe. But they have so few core players that they should be going full Dolphin right now.
    Why? It might take a couple years to get the defense on track and for Jones to progress. Saquon is only 22. Let's say 3 years. Ok he is 25 with 5 years left minimum. You keep him and only trade him later if everything else is crapping out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Why? It might take a couple years to get the defense on track and for Jones to progress. Saquon is only 22. Let's say 3 years. Ok he is 25 with 5 years left minimum. You keep him and only trade him later if everything else is crapping out.
    A couple years? The defense has 0 building blocks except Baker and Lawrence. The offensive line is a) average at best and b) aging. 5 years is an eternity for RBs, especially for guys who rely purely on athleticism, like Saquon. But think of what a return could be:

    Saquon trade today: 1st, 3rd, defensive player.
    #2 overall: 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd.

    That slew of draft picks changes the trajectory of your organization. As of right now, the Giants don't even have a light at the end of the tunnel.

  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    A couple years? The defense has 0 building blocks except Baker and Lawrence. The offensive line is a) average at best and b) aging. 5 years is an eternity for RBs, especially for guys who rely purely on athleticism, like Saquon. But think of what a return could be:

    Saquon trade today: 1st, 3rd, defensive player.
    #2 overall: 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd.

    That slew of draft picks changes the trajectory of your organization. As of right now, the Giants don't even have a light at the end of the tunnel.
    are you sAying if the giants trade Saquon ,they would get two number ones and two number 2

  7. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    A couple years? The defense has 0 building blocks except Baker and Lawrence. The offensive line is a) average at best and b) aging. 5 years is an eternity for RBs, especially for guys who rely purely on athleticism, like Saquon. But think of what a return could be:

    Saquon trade today: 1st, 3rd, defensive player.
    #2 overall: 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd.

    That slew of draft picks changes the trajectory of your organization. As of right now, the Giants don't even have a light at the end of the tunnel.
    They are going to have 60 million dollars to spend in free agency. Almost guaranteed they fill 2-3 spots on defense through that. Then I'd think it's likely they take defense with their first round pick. Give it another year (2020) to gel, more current rookies get a second year under their belt, and Daniel Jones gets his first full year in. By DJ's year 2 in 2021 you may make some noise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty9 View Post
    are you sAying if the giants trade Saquon ,they would get two number ones and two number 2
    Theoretically, if it means tanking this year. Someone is going to trade up to grab a QB. It might not be quite that high, but pretty close.

    But it's two separate trades. Saquon is the first, and then the second is a byproduct of trading Saquon.
    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    They are going to have 60 million dollars to spend in free agency. Almost guaranteed they fill 2-3 spots on defense through that. Then I'd think it's likely they take defense with their first round pick. Give it another year (2020) to gel, more current rookies get a second year under their belt, and Daniel Jones gets his first full year in. By DJ's year 2 in 2021 you may make some noise.
    Cap space means nothing when you have multiple holes at every spot. The Giants are basically where the Browns were when they drafted Manziel.

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    there just not a well run organization right now. hard for a fan to tell what the plan is. seems like there more worried about there perception outside the org for the moment than making the team better.

    they've gone on and on to anyone that will listen that jones is the next unitas yet he has not taken one meaningful snap in the nfl yet. (last week was garbage time)

    i think they did some good on the o-line this year, though they need youthful building blocks there.

    they could use another te or reciever of a 1st class degree

    the defense looked good against the run but there is no pass rush whatsoever which leaves an already suspect secondary fully exposed.

    Schurmer is 15-35 as a HC right now and still has much to prove. Gettlemen is a retread who has a history of cutting top tier fan favorites from squads. Also seems to have too thin a skin for NYC.

    i hope for the best but not sure this group gets it done anytime soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Theoretically, if it means tanking this year. Someone is going to trade up to grab a QB. It might not be quite that high, but pretty close.

    But it's two separate trades. Saquon is the first, and then the second is a byproduct of trading Saquon.

    Cap space means nothing when you have multiple holes at every spot. The Giants are basically where the Browns were when they drafted Manziel.
    That really doesn't make much sense.

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    Hey at least you're not the Jets . . . they could be a bubble team or total disaster and I'm already leaning towards disaster.

    How deep is next years draft to trade a potential franchise player away for future picks? RB might be the only stable position, why make all of it uncertain?

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    i've read reports that the qb class is strong with a good shot the top guys going 1-2
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  13. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    That really doesn't make much sense.
    Yes, it does, because you can't buy enough players to make a noticeable difference. They could add, say, 5 good starters and move from a 2-win team to a 4-win team, but what's the point?

    I mean do you honestly think that spending $40m on Jadaveon Clowney and Leonard Williams, $15m on AJ Green, and $15m Byron Jones makes them a contender in 2 years? Even assuming you get all those guys, that's a pretty hard sell unless Jones is absolutely great right away. But even then, I don't see how that team is different than, say, Houston. But the OL and secondary are still average at best, there's no real DL depth, your LBs are a guessing game, and now you've made it more difficult to sign Hernandez ($15m), Saquon ($17), Engram ($12m) and Jones ($35m). Plus, Solder and Zeitler are up after 2022.

    Spending big on FAs works if you have a 2-year window. The Giants are so far away from being competitive that no amount of spending in the next two years will make them a contender, and it's not worth the cap troubles long term. The Cowboys and Redskins took this same approach for the better part of the 2000s, and it never worked.

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    NY GIANTS DISCUSSION

    I’m so glad the NY Rangers didn’t hire a “Pat Shurmur” as coach. The guy looks and seems completely in over his head with this mess of a team and QB quandary. Maybe he’s just counting down the days til he can dump Eli and go forward with his “master plan”. That’s the only hope with him in my eyes.


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  15. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Yes, it does, because you can't buy enough players to make a noticeable difference. They could add, say, 5 good starters and move from a 2-win team to a 4-win team, but what's the point?

    I mean do you honestly think that spending $40m on Jadaveon Clowney and Leonard Williams, $15m on AJ Green, and $15m Byron Jones makes them a contender in 2 years? Even assuming you get all those guys, that's a pretty hard sell unless Jones is absolutely great right away. But even then, I don't see how that team is different than, say, Houston. But the OL and secondary are still average at best, there's no real DL depth, your LBs are a guessing game, and now you've made it more difficult to sign Hernandez ($15m), Saquon ($17), Engram ($12m) and Jones ($35m). Plus, Solder and Zeitler are up after 2022.

    Spending big on FAs works if you have a 2-year window. The Giants are so far away from being competitive that no amount of spending in the next two years will make them a contender, and it's not worth the cap troubles long term. The Cowboys and Redskins took this same approach for the better part of the 2000s, and it never worked.
    You are assuming that all of the picks they have made on defense don't pan out. They have multiple rookies at every level of the defense. If they suck you'll be right. If they're good then you'll be wrong.

  16. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    You are assuming that all of the picks they have made on defense don't pan out. They have multiple rookies at every level of the defense. If they suck you'll be right. If they're good then you'll be wrong.
    What do you mean all of the picks? They have 4 young guys - Wilkins, Carter, Baker and Ximines - who have any shot at being difference makers. Love, Hill, McIntosh...these guys are all just down-roster fodder. Their only value is in being on a rookie deal.

    But even if those guys do pan out, by the time they are good, say 3 years from now, the contracts from the cap space you're talking about will be prohibitive. It's conflicting viewpoints to spend a bunch on FAs and depend on rookies, because the timelines are way different.

  17. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    What do you mean all of the picks? They have 4 young guys - Wilkins, Carter, Baker and Ximines - who have any shot at being difference makers. Love, Hill, McIntosh...these guys are all just down-roster fodder. Their only value is in being on a rookie deal.

    But even if those guys do pan out, by the time they are good, say 3 years from now, the contracts from the cap space you're talking about will be prohibitive. It's conflicting viewpoints to spend a bunch on FAs and depend on rookies, because the timelines are way different.
    Wilkins? I assume you meant Dexter Lawrence.

    Regardless, you've listed 4 defensive players at different levels of the defense who can be good players...and potentially quicker than 3 years. I'm not sure why you discount the other rookies as fodder or don't mention them...Love, Ballentine, and Connelly all have potential as rookies. Additionally, they'll likely add 3 or 4 more defenders in next year's draft. So, now you've got 10+ young players to work with on defense without spending a dime. Not even including solid players like Jenkins or Peppers. So yes, adding 2 to 4 difference makers on defense through free agency would make a huge difference when you can supplement them with youth.

  18. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Wilkins? I assume you meant Dexter Lawrence.

    Regardless, you've listed 4 defensive players at different levels of the defense who can be good players...and potentially quicker than 3 years. I'm not sure why you discount the other rookies as fodder or don't mention them...Love, Ballentine, and Connelly all have potential as rookies. Additionally, they'll likely add 3 or 4 more defenders in next year's draft. So, now you've got 10+ young players to work with on defense without spending a dime. Not even including solid players like Jenkins or Peppers. So yes, adding 2 to 4 difference makers on defense through free agency would make a huge difference when you can supplement them with youth.
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  19. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vodka Drunkenski View Post
    Because he's a Cowboys fan
    That explains a lot. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Wilkins? I assume you meant Dexter Lawrence.

    Regardless, you've listed 4 defensive players at different levels of the defense who can be good players...and potentially quicker than 3 years. I'm not sure why you discount the other rookies as fodder or don't mention them...Love, Ballentine, and Connelly all have potential as rookies. Additionally, they'll likely add 3 or 4 more defenders in next year's draft. So, now you've got 10+ young players to work with on defense without spending a dime. Not even including solid players like Jenkins or Peppers. So yes, adding 2 to 4 difference makers on defense through free agency would make a huge difference when you can supplement them with youth.
    I mentioned Love.

    Just because they are young doesn't mean they are good. You're banking on 8 of these 10 guys becoming good players in the next two years? No shot.

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