nfl: NY GIANTS DISCUSSION

0-6 vs. division

5-11 in 2019

Going to be ugly. Even with an easier schedule. Barkley will be wasted away.

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Love how the Giants drafted Jones so that they can go 3-13 and draft Tua next year. Smart move, Gettleman 3 steps ahead.

I think the trade was worse than the Jones pick lol. Jones went earlier than he should have, but I don't buy that he would have gotten out of the first round. There are a bunch of good corners that would have been available at 37.

That’s the problem, ok let’s just say he becomes a stud, you could’ve still had Josh Allen become a stud and taken this kid with the 30th pick that they traded for

This. Even if they waited until the 17 pick for a QB, if Jones was gone, there were still 2 good QB's available. Earlier Gettleman said that they would have to take the best player available, and he lied to the fans. With this team having the holes it has, Allen would have plugged up a huge hole for them.

a few thoughts.

1) i don't ever want to hear that these guys never draft for need and only for value. pure B.S.

2) i don't care if this guy turns into Unitas, they should have taken one of the ends or the best tackle on the board.

3) John Mara is not smart. i have a family member who worked pretty high up in the NFL for 21 years and has dealt with him on many occasions.

4) the trade up to 30 was an epic fleecing. this team has so many holes to fill they needed all these picks.

just pure stupidity all around.

Let's focus on the positives: https://nypost.com/2019/04/22/a-mix-of-peyton-and-eli-daniel-jones-is-perfect-fit-for-giants-in-nfl-draft/

Jones broke his collarbone in the second game this season. He was back 20 days later with a plate and screws to stabilize the bone connecting his left arm to his body.

 

“Never looked back, never complained, never shied away from a hit,” Cutcliffe said.

 

His leadership style?

 

“Well he’s a two-time captain,” Cutcliffe said. “He’s the first one in the weight room, he’s the first one down for any offseason workout, going to the indoor and throwing and throwing. The players are gonna respect his work ethic. They also respect his talent, all players respect talent, and he’s loaded with talent.

 

“He has no fear, he’ll address a player if they’re not giving what they should and he goes about it sometimes not as vocal as others, but he’s been a tremendous leader for us. We’ll miss that portion of him.”

I didn't know he played last year with an injury of that sort.

According to Sal Paolantonio on the Kay show, apparently it wasn’t the Redskins the Giants were concerned with taking him, it was the Broncos at 10.

Seems like an Elway kind of QB to pick. And it actually makes a lot of sense that Denver traded out of 10 after they couldn't get the QB they wanted. They and the Bengals also passed up on Haskins and Lock, which is telling of what other QB needy teams thought of those guys. Denver also passed on Lock at 20. Unfortunately there isn't an alternate universe where we can see where Jones goes if the Giants don't take him.

According to Sal Paolantonio on the Kay show, apparently it wasn’t the Redskins the Giants were concerned with taking him, it was the Broncos at 10.

Let's say that's true. From what I'm reading, Jones isn't ready to start. Could be 2 years before he is. So with Eli having this year to play out his contract, what does that mean for the Giants?

I know these circumstances can change, but damn.

Let's say that's true. From what I'm reading, Jones isn't ready to start. Could be 2 years before he is. So with Eli having this year to play out his contract, what does that mean for the Giants?

 

I know these circumstances can change, but damn.

I've gotten the opposite impression from reading about Jones. He could probably start right away and be "okay", but a 1 year wait should be a perfect situation for him.

Gettleman got duped by the league. Old man "knew for a fact" two other teams wanted Jones, except Broncos confirmed they didn't, and people say Dan Snyder wanted Haskins which they got. Denver did want Lock but they could wait until the next round which they did. That's Gettleman's problem right there, he had plenty of time to wait but instead he lost an elite prospect like Josh Allen.

Obviously the 'other' issue is Jones isn't anything special, somebody keep this guy away from the Senior Bowl

Gettleman got duped by the league. Old man "knew for a fact" two other teams wanted Jones, except Broncos confirmed they didn't, and people say Dan Snyder wanted Haskins which they got. Denver did want Lock but they could wait until the next round which they did. That's Gettleman's problem right there, he had plenty of time to wait but instead he lost an elite prospect like Josh Allen.

 

Obviously the 'other' issue is Jones isn't anything special, somebody keep this guy away from the Senior Bowl

:lol:

All I can do is laugh atm and hope he turns out to be a serviceable QB. It's going to be a long season.

Obviously the 'other' issue is Jones isn't anything special, somebody keep this guy away from the Senior Bowl

Oh really? What a glowing regurgitation of the ESPN talking heads.

I've watched Daniel Jones tape, and not just the highlights. I see a ton of potential and don't understand the incessant hating that's out there right now. I get the point that he was picked a little higher than some mock drafters thought he would, but I don't see on tape what the haters are saying. He doesn't have a weak arm. He doesn't have bad accuracy. He doesn't have a bad deep ball, though he didn't get to use it that much with the OL he had. He is probably the second most mobile QB behind Murray in this draft. He can really run and he posted a very good 40 time...something like 4.65. He makes smart decisions. Giants fans need to step away from the ledge and see how it pans out.

I'll add that I would have taken Allen in that spot, and don't think it was a prudent move at all to take Jones there. But if they feel it's their guy and they A) didn't want to lose Jones and B) didn't think they could work out a trade up from 17 to make sure they got him, then I understand. But it's done, and it's time to focus on the positives. It will be fun reading the Giants bashing league wide for probably a year and a half until Jones even gets a snap.

Oh really? What a glowing regurgitation of the ESPN talking heads.

 

I've watched Daniel Jones tape, and not just the highlights. I see a ton of potential and don't understand the incessant hating that's out there right now

The only way that's true is if the sum is greater than the parts. He doesn't have any natural elite tools. It's a huge reach to project he's even going to come close to Eli Manning. It's possible, but it's not likely.

The only way that's true is if the sum is greater than the parts. He doesn't have any natural elite tools. It's a huge reach to project he's even going to come close to Eli Manning. It's possible, but it's not likely.

Define natural elite tools. Is this just a cannon for an arm? That's not what makes QBs great.

His deep passes need a long build up and release to generate enough power to hit the target and they tend to hang for a long time

He has ability to move to evade pocket pressure, but he doesn’t move often to create windows which led to a high rate of batted balls at scrimmage in college

With that arm, when he tried to make NFL-caliber throws outside the hash-mark, he wasn't throwing at the same level as NFL elite level QBs in a tight window and at the same speed

He's also got a bit of a thin frame physically and doesn't tend to protect himself, he already had a collarbone injury last season and there is legit injury concern at the NFL level

Gettleman got duped by the league. Old man "knew for a fact" two other teams wanted Jones, except Broncos confirmed they didn't, and people say Dan Snyder wanted Haskins which they got. Denver did want Lock but they could wait until the next round which they did. That's Gettleman's problem right there, he had plenty of time to wait but instead he lost an elite prospect like Josh Allen.

 

Obviously the 'other' issue is Jones isn't anything special, somebody keep this guy away from the Senior Bowl

He clearly fucked up not waiting for Jones at 17. I don?t trust a word that comes out of his mouth. What a clown, the more he talks the dumber he comes off. At 17 the pick would have likely been viewed favorably. The fact they passed on Allen makes me furious.

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His deep passes need a long build up and release to generate enough power to hit the target and they tend to hang for a long time

 

He has ability to move to evade pocket pressure, but he doesn’t move often to create windows which led to a high rate of batted balls at scrimmage in college

 

With that arm, when he tried to make NFL-caliber throws outside the hash-mark, he wasn't throwing at the same level as NFL elite level QBs in a tight window and at the same speed

 

He's also got a bit of a thin frame physically and doesn't tend to protect himself, he already had a collarbone injury last season and there is legit injury concern at the NFL level

Arm strength can be improved to a certain degree over time. Several examples exist of QBs improving their arm strength after reaching the pros. Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, etc. The way this is mentioned in the media makes it seems like he has a noodle arm. It's not an absolute cannon like Kyler Murray, in fact it's a couple of notches below, but it's an NFL arm.

Neither batted balls or size concerns are natural talent. Batted balls is fixable. The size comment is inaccurate. Go take a look at NFL QBs and their height/weight/etc. He's also only 21.

The guy was 1st round pick quality. Probably more teens-20s, but that's just how it goes sometimes. Gettleman simply wanted him and didn't care if it was a value reach. In reality they should have been prepared for this scenario where a guy like Allen is available that you should absolutely take. That way they can have a trade lined up to get back up there for Jones. Perhaps they did and they couldn't work anything out for a trade up, but it didn't sound like it based on Gettleman's press conference the night of the draft. What people are doing right now is painting this picture that Jones is a mediocre or backup QB just because he was taken early.

I'm honestly just glad that at least it wasn't Haskins at 6. That guy is going to bust hard IMO.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/28/draft-recap-dolphins-rosen-trade-giants-fans-daniel-jones-steve-keim-kyler-murray-nick-bosa-social

Good stuff!

The other most annoying thing about NFL draft fandom is that everyone forgets that teams can not only trade their draft picks, but can trade them in exchange for another team's draft picks. Which brings us to Giants fans, who at some point over the past 18 months… I’m not really sure how to put this, but it seems like they collectively decided to do an Improv Everywhere-style mass impersonation of Jets fans.

 

If you don’t like the Daniel Jones pick, then don’t like the Daniel Jones pick. He was in a trio of uninspiring second-tier QBs in an uninspiring draft class. Some NFL teams thought he was better than Dwayne Haskins, and some did not. At Duke, Jones played behind a terrible offensive line with receivers who were not only unable separate consistently but struggled to catch the ball when they did. At Ohio State, Haskins played in an offense where almost every one of his teammates, in every game, was better than the man they lined up against. Haskins has a better arm. Jones is a better athlete. (I’d have thought Giants fans would have terror-induced diarrhea at the thought of Haskins standing like a statue behind an offensive line that hasn’t been good for years, but seems I'm mistaken.)

 

Jones would not have made it to 17, a fact that for some reason has made the obnoxious new faction of woe-is-me Giants fans go after respected journalists who will forget more about football than these internet tough guys will ever know. But let’s step into a fictional world where Jones might have been available at 17. What are the odds that, say, taking Josh Allen (a fine player but another guy in that clump of not-Bosa-nor-Quinnen players in this draft), to play under a defensive coordinator who primarily generates pressure via the blitz, instead of Dexter Lawrence would make a difference? (That’s a rhetorical question, the answer is “very low.”)

 

Projecting a quarterback’s success is difficult, and there will be a number of factors both in and out of Jones’s control that will determine what he becomes in the NFL. But, in short, this Jones pick is fine. It certainly shouldn't be moving anyone emotionally. I’ve spent the bulk of my life in New York, and I haven’t heard the city freak out over a draft pick like this since the Knicks missed out on Jahlil Okafor.

I think the thing with...

Murray

Haskins

Jones

All have their deficiencies. Honestly at 6 I?d have concerns with all 3. Haskins could turn out to be a 300 lb mess. Murray may be too small or injury prone for the league and Jones while smart could be nothing more than average. Was it worth passing on a defensive star for any of these 3? Who knows. Guys like Bosa, White and Allen look like future pro bowlers for sure.

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