nfl: NY GIANTS DISCUSSION

I think the thing with...

 

Murray

Haskins

Jones

 

All have their deficiencies. Honestly at 6 I’d have concerns with all 3. Haskins could turn out to be a 300 lb mess. Murray may be too small or injury prone for the league and Jones while smart could be nothing more than average. Was it worth passing on a defensive star for any of these 3? Who knows. Guys like Bosa, White and Allen look like future pro bowlers for sure.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

Would have loved Murray. He's a special player. I'd absolutely roll the dice on his size.

Not taking Allen is a very tough pill to swallow. By all accounts, the Giants had an excellent value draft once disregarding the Jones pick. It would have been a homerun with Allen, and the defense would be that much more improved. You win with the big boys on DL/OL. They should have stuck to that. QB could have been solved next draft. With all that said, I still think Jones has the ability to make Gettleman eventually look like a genius. It was a career defining decision and it took massive balls to do it. I hope it works out.

I've watched Daniel Jones tape, and not just the highlights. I see a ton of potential and don't understand the incessant hating that's out there right now. I get the point that he was picked a little higher than some mock drafters thought he would, but I don't see on tape what the haters are saying. He doesn't have a weak arm. He doesn't have bad accuracy. He doesn't have a bad deep ball, though he didn't get to use it that much with the OL he had. He is probably the second most mobile QB behind Murray in this draft. He can really run and he posted a very good 40 time...something like 4.65. He makes smart decisions. Giants fans need to step away from the ledge and see how it pans out..

This is...awfully generous. He went early because of his physical limitations, its disingenuous to act like they aren't there.

His deep ball floats and his delivery is awfully slow - which are both a product of a weak arm and a lack of natural throwing talent. The best quarterbacks just throw with that little flick of the wrist, Jones can't get any mustard without being able to step up and throw with perfect mechanics. That doesn't get exposed in the college game, it will in the pros. What he does have is good vision and mechanics...but that means he doesn't have a whole lot of developing to do. He's Chad Pennington, Josh McCown, Case Keenum, etc.

This is...awfully generous. He went early because of his physical limitations, its disingenuous to act like they aren't there.

 

His deep ball floats and his delivery is awfully slow - which are both a product of a weak arm and a lack of natural throwing talent. The best quarterbacks just throw with that little flick of the wrist, Jones can't get any mustard without being able to step up and throw with perfect mechanics. That doesn't get exposed in the college game, it will in the pros. What he does have is good vision and mechanics...but that means he doesn't have a whole lot of developing to do. He's Chad Pennington, Josh McCown, Case Keenum, etc.

I just don't see that on tape.

On phone right now so can't dig for in game footage, but on pro day he flung it 50 yards in a quick smooth motion...looks like he barely tried: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-path-to-the-draft/0ap3000001024325/Daniel-Jones-dials-long-distance-on-deep-ball-at-pro-day

Plenty of arm for the NFL. You don't need to be upper echelon arm strength amongst NFL QBs to be elite. Brady and Brees are not in the upper echelon when it comes to arm strength.

I just don't see that on tape.

 

On phone right now so can't dig for in game footage, but on pro day he flung it 50 yards in a quick smooth motion...looks like he barely tried: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-path-to-the-draft/0ap3000001024325/Daniel-Jones-dials-long-distance-on-deep-ball-at-pro-day

 

Plenty of arm for the NFL. You don't need to be upper echelon arm strength amongst NFL QBs to be elite. Brady and Brees are not in the upper echelon when it comes to arm strength.

This one?

https://youtu.be/11Y7hpvrppA?t=50

Every QB in the league can do this when they're able to step up and use their whole body. But even this ball floats.

Compare that to this, which travels 70 after movement in the pocket:

But just compare the zip that Allen has with such minimal effort. These guys aren't even in the same class as passers, and Allen wasn't even considered the top QB. That's why Jones at 6 is a huge reach.

Jones has plenty of arm for the NFL if you want him to be Chad Pennington. Your interpretation of the film is based on what you want him to be, not what he actually is. He's got a slow, manufactured release that only generates power when surrounding factors are perfect. That's what Christian Hackenberg was like lol.

I'm honestly just glad that at least it wasn't Haskins at 6. That guy is going to bust hard IMO.

I was behind the Haskins pick mostly because of Boomer Esiason. He's been going on about this kid for months and months even before he became a serious potential pick for the Giants. He absolutely loves him and says he's perfect for the NFL. So I'm deferring to Boomer on that one, but we'll find out playing the Redskins 2x per year

This is...awfully generous. He went early because of his physical limitations, its disingenuous to act like they aren't there.

 

His deep ball floats and his delivery is awfully slow - which are both a product of a weak arm and a lack of natural throwing talent. The best quarterbacks just throw with that little flick of the wrist, Jones can't get any mustard without being able to step up and throw with perfect mechanics. That doesn't get exposed in the college game, it will in the pros. What he does have is good vision and mechanics...but that means he doesn't have a whole lot of developing to do. He's Chad Pennington, Josh McCown, Case Keenum, etc.

Not to mention, everyone keeps saying he played on a bad team that had no talent in college, yet what does everyone think he is stepping into here? The Giants have no OL, no WR, only a running back. If OBJ was still here, the argument can be made that he has some talent between OBJ and Barkely, so he had some offensive options. Now, what does he have? If Eli can't get anything done with them, what is Jones going to do thats different?

This one?

https://youtu.be/11Y7hpvrppA?t=50

 

Every QB in the league can do this when they're able to step up and use their whole body. But even this ball floats.

 

Compare that to this, which travels 70 after movement in the pocket:

 

But just compare the zip that Allen has with such minimal effort. These guys aren't even in the same class as passers, and Allen wasn't even considered the top QB. That's why Jones at 6 is a huge reach.

 

Jones has plenty of arm for the NFL if you want him to be Chad Pennington. Your interpretation of the film is based on what you want him to be, not what he actually is. He's got a slow, manufactured release that only generates power when surrounding factors are perfect. That's what Christian Hackenberg was like lol.

That was my interpretation of the film before the draft, so no, it's not what I want to see. It's simply what I see. Your interpretation of what you see is based off other's interpretations.

Not to mention, everyone keeps saying he played on a bad team that had no talent in college, yet what does everyone think he is stepping into here? The Giants have no OL, no WR, only a running back. If OBJ was still here, the argument can be made that he has some talent between OBJ and Barkely, so he had some offensive options. Now, what does he have? If Eli can't get anything done with them, what is Jones going to do thats different?

Run lol .. but really though, Tate and Shepherd is no WR? The OL has been essentially completely rebuilt, aside from RT. Though there's a rumor that they will be signing Remmers for that. This seems like a false narrative for a team that scored the most points in their division, and consistently scored 27+ points per game in the 2nd half. I am not very concerned about the offense personally. The defense on the other hand...

Brady didn’t have a strong arm either

Good point, Daniel Jones is probably Tom Brady. Man Giants are set

Good point, Daniel Jones is probably Tom Brady. Man Giants are set

Glad that?s what you got out of my post. But then again your conclusion is Gettleman is a racist because he picked Jones, so it doesn?t surprise me.

:rolleyes:

Glad that’s what you got out of my post. But then again your conclusion is Gettleman is a racist because he picked Jones, so it doesn’t surprise me.

He is racist, before the draft people said he would never pick a black quarterback and he delivered

That was my interpretation of the film before the draft, so no, it's not what I want to see. It's simply what I see. Your interpretation of what you see is based off other's interpretations.

If you saw a strong-armed QB in Daniel Jones, then I have no idea what you're watching. It is unanimous that he doesn't have a strong arm.

Run lol .. but really though, Tate and Shepherd is no WR? The OL has been essentially completely rebuilt, aside from RT. Though there's a rumor that they will be signing Remmers for that. This seems like a false narrative for a team that scored the most points in their division, and consistently scored 27+ points per game in the 2nd half. I am not very concerned about the offense personally. The defense on the other hand...

Tate + Shepard is one of the worst 1-2 WR combos in the NFL lol. Engram is good, but Saquon is the whole offense.

"Consistently" They only did it against Indy, Tampa (JV squad) and the Cowboys backups...those weren't legit NFL defenses. The offense didn't do much in the others you're referring to...Against WAS they had a defensive TD and a 10-yard TD drive. Against Chicago, they had a defensive TD and a -6 yard FG drive that started at the Chicago 13.

The offense sucks as bad as the defense.

If you saw a strong-armed QB in Daniel Jones, then I have no idea what you're watching. It is unanimous that he doesn't have a strong arm.

You didn't read anything I wrote if that is your summation.

Tate + Shepard is one of the worst 1-2 WR combos in the NFL lol. Engram is good, but Saquon is the whole offense.

 

"Consistently" They only did it against Indy, Tampa (JV squad) and the Cowboys backups...those weren't legit NFL defenses. The offense didn't do much in the others you're referring to...Against WAS they had a defensive TD and a 10-yard TD drive. Against Chicago, they had a defensive TD and a -6 yard FG drive that started at the Chicago 13.

 

The offense sucks as bad as the defense.

You can do far worse than Tate, Shephard, Engram, and Barkley out of the backfield. Coleman also has potential as a former 1st rounder. This isn't fantasy football. Not everyone needs 1200/10 to make up a good receiving core. The Pats are a shining example of this.

I get it though. There's a Giants fan faction out there that requires bitching and moaning about everything. It's the hip thing. This fan base is embarrassing.

This fan base is embarrassing.

I thought the Jets fan base was embarrassing and the Giants fanbase was classy

I thought the Jets fan base was embarrassing and the Giants fanbase was classy

I guess a few losing seasons changes things pretty fast.

You can do far worse than Tate, Shephard, Engram, and Barkley out of the backfield. Coleman also has potential as a former 1st rounder. This isn't fantasy football. Not everyone needs 1200/10 to make up a good receiving core. The Pats are a shining example of this.

 

I get it though. There's a Giants fan faction out there that requires bitching and moaning about everything. It's the hip thing. This fan base is embarrassing.

First of all, I fucking hate the Giants lol

You don't need a 1,200 yard guy explicitly, but you need a guy who dictates coverage, which every good offense has. The Pats have always had this with Gronk, or Randy Moss before him. Having a guy who requires a double team or bracket coverage has always been the most important feature of their offense. They build around that with guys who win 1-1 (all the little white guys)

First of all, I fucking hate the Giants lol

That's a relief. There is still a faction of Giants fans that sound just like you. You can rip the Giants all you want heh, but you're wrong ;)

Well on their way to being respectable again.

Run lol .. but really though, Tate and Shepherd is no WR? The OL has been essentially completely rebuilt, aside from RT. Though there's a rumor that they will be signing Remmers for that. This seems like a false narrative for a team that scored the most points in their division, and consistently scored 27+ points per game in the 2nd half. I am not very concerned about the offense personally. The defense on the other hand...

Scoring the most in the division means absolutely nothing. Look at where they are in the league, they were 16th in the league. The entire division sucked putting up points. Tate is at the end of his career, Shepard is decent, but he isn't a number 1 WR. The OL was terrible last year, they got better as the season went on, but were still horrible. They went 5-11 which isn't anything to brag about.

Fan base = Giants/Rangers. Moan & groan about every little glitch and every player that is not automatically the best of the best; every coach that doesn't perform perfectly like a robot; every GM that makes decisions that the fan base has nary a clue about. All one has to do is read many of the posts on "BS"BH to get the picture.

GO RANGERS!!

Scoring the most in the division means absolutely nothing. Look at where they are in the league, they were 16th in the league. The entire division sucked putting up points. Tate is at the end of his career, Shepard is decent, but he isn't a number 1 WR. The OL was terrible last year, they got better as the season went on, but were still horrible. They went 5-11 which isn't anything to brag about.

The OL was much improved the 2nd half and they've added a probowl quality RG.

Scoring the most points in the division generally helps win the division, so it does matter. I didn't see people bitching about the Eagles or Cowboys offense even though they scored less. The defense was horrid and thats why the Giants were horrid.