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Thread: McKenzie: Rangers Will Circle on Karlsson, Tavares

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    As he got more icetime he produced less. 0 points in the last seven games with top pairing minutes. I thought +/- wasn't a good stat anymore.. His give aways almost triple his take aways, he didn't score any goals, he didn't hit anyone, I wish I could make sense of the analytics, but i can imagine them being not so great. Corsi for % at 40.7, means what exactly? That the Rangers had the puck 40% of the time he's on the ice? Great. 1st pairing it is.

    Im definitely not shitting on him, but im not putting him in any top 4 spot, much less the top pairing as i think I've seen suggested here,
    Well, I didn't say anything about a top 4 pairing. I said bundling him with Hayes and a 1st for Hamilton was a no go.
    As for stats, I think averaging .5 point/game is pretty damn good for a rookie coming in mid season for a shite team.
    I'm not sure who said +/- isn't a good stat, but it certainly tells you something when a young D plays for a team that is porous, he is matched against the top opposition guys and plays the PK and is at -1 over a good stretch of games. As a comparison, Brady Skjei is -27.
    Look, I think he's a really smart player. I think he skates well, I think he has a good overall game in all 3 zones and is the kind of guy we should be looking to keep at this stage of the rebuild.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravesy View Post
    Well, I didn't say anything about a top 4 pairing. I said bundling him with Hayes and a 1st for Hamilton was a no go.
    As for stats, I think averaging .5 point/game is pretty damn good for a rookie coming in mid season for a shite team.
    I'm not sure who said +/- isn't a good stat, but it certainly tells you something when a young D plays for a team that is porous, he is matched against the top opposition guys and plays the PK and is at -1 over a good stretch of games. As a comparison, Brady Skjei is -27.
    Look, I think he's a really smart player. I think he skates well, I think he has a good overall game in all 3 zones and is the kind of guy we should be looking to keep at this stage of the rebuild.
    I said I must have missed where he played his way into anything more than a 6 or 7 role... You replied that i did miss those games... Which would imply that he is top 4 material in your mind.

    +/- doesn't tell the whole story. If the guy is giving the puck away more than taking it away, as a D man, that suggests the Rangers are pinned in their own zone... Which they were since the trade deadline. Pionk was there. Getting those minutes, giving the puck to the other team...

    Hes learning. I get that. But I have smaller hopes than most here. If you're not penciling him in as a top 4, we agree about his play. Bit if they can get a top minutes player at any position for a package including him, I absolutely jump on it,

    I think to get a guy like Hamilton, you have to give. Hes in his prime and reasonably signed. He fills a team need instantly as a top pairing RH d man.

    Hayes or Namestikov will cash in on their next contract and I don't see much of a need for either if the Rangers are going for Tavares, and if Andersson is as good as people seem to expect. Add in Chytil and Howden, and the potential 3rd line center spot will have a log jam. Some of these guys have to go, and the Rangers will not get full value for them, much like Hagelin and Talbot.

    So you have to sweeten the pot. I deal 4 Pionks and Hayes/Namestikov to get a signed (to a good contract) in their prime top pairing RHD. Its automatic. Do it every time.

  3. #103
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    Agree to disagree on Pionk.
    I want him here for a full season at least to see how he develops.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    +/- doesn't tell the whole story. If the guy is giving the puck away more than taking it away, as a D man, that suggests the Rangers are pinned in their own zone... Which they were since the trade deadline. Pionk was there. Getting those minutes, giving the puck to the other team...
    .
    What does +/- have to do with giving the puck away more than taking it away?

    And why does giving the puck away more than taking it away suggest they're pinned in their zone?

    It could just suggest he has possession of the puck more often than not. You have to have it to give it away...

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Pionk has arguably played his way into the top-four to start next season.
    Only by default. He proved that he's an NHL defender, but that's about it. Pionk isn't a good enough athlete to make any mental mistakes, and he makes a ton. And while Giveaways is a pretty unreliable stat, he was among the Rangers' worst last year. He was pacing 96 GA and, for comparison, Staal paced 49, Shatty paced 109, and Dan Girardi was always around the 60 mark under AV.

    This is one of the worst defensive plays I've ever seen:
    https://youtu.be/4SeJqVkeEWg?t=3m43s

    Pionk did an admirable job of making a good impression despite being thrown into a situation that's almost impossible to do well in - 60% dzs on a tank roster. He has a long, long way to go both physically and mentally, before he's ready to take on a top-4 role on a decent team. Having said that, he really outplayed Brady Skjei - which is either a really good sign for Pionk or a really bad sign for Skjei.
    Last edited by Future; 04-16-2018 at 11:12 AM.

  6. #106
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    That's fair. He's earned a roster spot, though. One to lose, perhaps, but one regardless.
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  7. #107
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    It's impossible to judge anyone on the team based on the last quarter of this year, especially the D men.

    Unless someone was flat out horrible (Names), then judging a player based on something like GVA is a bit unfair. Did he move the puck to where he was supposed to, and the winger wasn't in position? That's a GVA if the other team recovered the puck.

    It's just too small a sample size.

  8. #108
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    A little off topic maybe, but does icing the puck count as a giveaway?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc View Post
    A little off topic maybe, but does icing the puck count as a giveaway?
    No.

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