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Thread: 2018 Off-Season Thread: #TradeSzn

  1. #581
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division rmc51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Their top talent is already locked up forever. Stamkos, Kuch, Miller, Killorn, Johnson, Hedman and Mac are already locked up through at least 22-23. Assuming no other roster changes or cap increases, they're ~13.5m under the cap next year with only Point, Sergachev and maybe Stralman to sign.
    Isnt 22-23 about the time when we should be able to have Cup aspirations? Figure 2 years from being competitive. 3-5 years from being serious Cup contenders.

  2. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Isnt 22-23 about the time when we should be able to have Cup aspirations? Figure 2 years from being competitive. 3-5 years from being serious Cup contenders.
    Well sure - even though I think that's a little bit longer than it should take.

    But JTM is the only one not signed through 23-24. Stamkos, Kuch, Hedman, Mac and presumably Point & Sergachev will all still be there. Plus whatever prospects they're able to retain and hit on - Foote, Katchouk, Raddysh, Cirelli. TBL's window is wide open right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Well sure - even though I think that's a little bit longer than it should take.

    But JTM is the only one not signed through 23-24. Stamkos, Kuch, Hedman, Mac and presumably Point & Sergachev will all still be there. Plus whatever prospects they're able to retain and hit on - Foote, Katchouk, Raddysh, Cirelli. TBL's window is wide open right now.
    Given what we've seen, McD should not be in that list. He doesn't have that much time left, especially if they go 2 or 3 rounds deep in the playoffs every year.

  4. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Given what we've seen, McD should not be in that list. He doesn't have that much time left, especially if they go 2 or 3 rounds deep in the playoffs every year.
    Eh, I don't buy that. He can play 20:00 on the second pair for another 4-5 years easily.

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    with his growing injury history i don't think he has another 400+ games in him where he'll be worth $6.75M

  6. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    with his growing injury history i don't think he has another 400+ games in him where he'll be worth $6.75M
    Ok, I don't think he's worth $6.75 now. But he is locked up and he is their second-best defenseman.

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    And they will all be 3-4 years older. And they probably won't be able to keep much of a support cast. And your draft picks at 27 or 28 won't be the same as where you picked Stamkos and Hedman.

    I just don't see them being as good in 4-5 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Ok, I don't think he's worth $6.75 now. But he is locked up and he is their second-best defenseman.
    So if you already don't think he's worth it, then it isn't beneficial to Tampa to have him signed through the next 8 years.

  9. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    So if you already don't think he's worth it, then it isn't beneficial to Tampa to have him signed through the next 8 years.
    Ok? That's never a part of anything that I said.

    All I said was that all of their top players are locked up and their window is open for a long time. Whether they overpaid for Mac or not is irrelevant.

    And overpaying a guy doesn't mean it's not beneficial to have him signed anyways, when you're competing for a cup.k The only way that matters is if the contract costs you something else, and TBL isn't in a position where that's going to be the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Ok? That's never a part of anything that I said.

    All I said was that all of their top players are locked up and their window is open for a long time. Whether they overpaid for Mac or not is irrelevant.

    And overpaying a guy doesn't mean it's not beneficial to have him signed anyways, when you're competing for a cup.k The only way that matters is if the contract costs you something else, and TBL isn't in a position where that's going to be the case.
    It most certainly does. If your paying McD $6.75M three years from now, and he's a shell of his former self, that hurts your window. That's the reason we bought out Girardi. They have about 3 years before McD is their new Callahan.

  11. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    And they will all be 3-4 years older. And they probably won't be able to keep much of a support cast. And your draft picks at 27 or 28 won't be the same as where you picked Stamkos and Hedman.

    I just don't see them being as good in 4-5 years.
    In 4 years, Kilorn will be their oldest forward, at 33 and Stamkos will only be 32. Their supporting cast will be exactly the same, except they have to replace Cally, G, Coburn and maybe Stralman. Four years from now, with no roster adds or cap dumps, this could be their lineup:

    JTM - Stamkos - Kuch
    Palat - Point - Johnson
    Cirelli - Gourde - Killorn
    Katchouck - Paquette - Raddysh

    Hedman - Sergachev
    Mac - Stralman
    Dotchin - Foote

    Vasilevsky
    Domingue

    That's better than what they rolled out this year.
    Last edited by Future; 07-12-2018 at 11:37 AM.

  12. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    It most certainly does. If your paying McD $6.75M three years from now, and he's a shell of his former self, that hurts your window. That's the reason we bought out Girardi. They have about 3 years before McD is their new Callahan.
    We bought out Girardi because we couldn't pay other guys. TBL doesn't have to do that. You're also assuming that McD is going to continue to regress, which is silly, because he's been the same player since 2014, and now he's going to get easier minutes.

    And again, this is not the point I'm making. The point is that they can roll with the exact roster they have now for another 5 years and be a contender. They don't have to do a single thing except extend their own guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    In 4 years, Kilorn will be their oldest forward, at 33 and Stamkos will only be 32. Their supporting cast will be exactly the same, except they have to replace Cally, G, Coburn and maybe Stralman. Four years from now, with no roster adds or cap dumps, this could be their lineup:

    JTM - Stamkos - Kuch
    Palat - Point - Johnson
    Cirelli - Gourde - Killorn
    Katchouck - Paquette - Raddysh

    Hedman - Sergachev
    Mac - Stralman
    Dotchin - Foote

    Vasilevsky
    Domingue

    That's better than what they rolled out this year.
    What's that salary cap look like with Point, Sergachev off of their ELCs and Gourde making close to 5 mil and Vas around 7?

  14. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    We bought out Girardi because we couldn't pay other guys. TBL doesn't have to do that. You're also assuming that McD is going to continue to regress, which is silly, because he's been the same player since 2014, and now he's going to get easier minutes.

    And again, this is not the point I'm making. The point is that they can roll with the exact roster they have now for another 5 years and be a contender. They don't have to do a single thing except extend their own guys.
    How do they not have to pay anyone? Stralman UFA, Gourde UFA, Point and Serg off ELCs...Vas will be UFA 20-21...

  15. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    What's that salary cap look like with Point, Sergachev off of their ELCs and Gourde making close to 5 mil and Vas around 7?
    It's easy.

    In 21-22, with

    Point - 8
    Gourde - 5
    Serg - 6
    Vas - 7
    Foote - 5
    Katchouk - 3
    Raddysh - 3
    Cirelli - 3

    They'd only be at $87,320,000. That might be a little tight, but all it would mean is moving bottom of the lineup players, at that point.

  16. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    How do they not have to pay anyone? Stralman UFA, Gourde UFA, Point and Serg off ELCs...Vas will be UFA 20-21...
    "If you didn't read the last line, it shows how little you pay attention to other people's posts, honestly."

  17. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    It's easy.

    In 21-22, with

    Point - 8
    Gourde - 5
    Serg - 6
    Vas - 7
    Foote - 5
    Katchouk - 3
    Raddysh - 3
    Cirelli - 3

    They'd only be at $87,320,000. That might be a little tight, but all it would mean is moving bottom of the lineup players, at that point.
    Isn’t the CBA up in 20 or 21? Who knows what is going to happen at that point with salaries. Hell, we could lose another season.

  18. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    Isn’t the CBA up in 20 or 21? Who knows what is going to happen at that point with salaries. Hell, we could lose another season.
    Good point. Also expansion to consider.

    CBA ends in 2022 but I think they can terminate before then.

  19. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    "If you didn't read the last line, it shows how little you pay attention to other people's posts, honestly."
    Just when I think you can't possibly go more out of context, you've got a gem like this.

  20. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    I named 3 wingers I like. Dunny named one from Ottawa who is a good prospect. There is Tampa's first too, which was also discussed. We've yet to deplete Tampa's stock.
    I forget. Does Tampa already have the cap space to take on Karlsson? And are they looking for an extension? Wouldn't they have to clear more cap space for that? If they are getting a guarantee of Karlsson resigning with them, Tampa is trading the assets that you covet to get Karlsson. Tampa won't have much the Rangers want to make a deal worth it for the Rangers. I highly doubt they will want to trade yet another 1st rounder on top of the conditional one they have going to the Rangers.

    What I'm saying is. What is Tampa giving up besides Sergachev to get a signed Karlsson? It's going to have to be another top prospect. I don't know the prospects you listed. I'd imagine you're trying to get their best. I don't think they will be there to be traded.

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