Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 160

Thread: Does Islanders News Open Door on Tavares?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,992
    Rep Power
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    Tavares is probably going to get more than mcdavid. Not because he is better but because he has 31 teams bidding for his services. If he wants the biggest paycheck he’s going to break records with his contract because somebody will give it to him. If he’s looking at the best possible situation than he may take less.

    Mcdavid was still a rfa for years, he had little leverage. He still had another year at elc money and another bunch of years at rfa and arbitration. Completely different from Tavares.

    Mcd could get 7.5 or more. Doughty Karlsson and oel are all ufas with mcd they will set the market and mcd will come in just unde them
    I could be wrong, but I'm inclined to believe that the owners will use McDavid's contract as a high water mark, since he is universally accepted as the most valuable player in the league. Not saying owners will covertly collude, but they will use it as a benchmark (rightly so) to work (down) from. Until another player gets the hype of Grets, Mario, Lindros, Crosby, and McDavid I feel like that salary becomes the bar for a while.

    Besides who really has that Cap space besides a few shitty clubs who are less desirable to the best UFA. Toronto could make room for say 10.5 but how many will relegate 15mil of their cap (that is the max I think) for someone who isn't McDavid? Plus, when does the realization that Tavares (or other 28 y/o FA) in 6 years has a much greater chance to be a liability than McDavid? The age factor has to be a bit of a limiter.

  2. #42
    Russian Meddling BSBH Rookie
    josh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    24,357
    Rep Power
    250
    Pittsburgh is a top heavy team.


    Our depth was/is better, our defense is better, and goaltending is similar.

    Look at Shearys stats away from Crosby.
    Look at Guetzels.
    Look at Schultz's.


    Conor Sheary isnt going to help this team.
    A top-center that can make a guy like Sheary be a top-line player for us, is something we need.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  3. #43
    Moderator Junior Division
    Future's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    6,520
    Rep Power
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    I could be wrong, but I'm inclined to believe that the owners will use McDavid's contract as a high water mark, since he is universally accepted as the most valuable player in the league.
    It only takes 1 to break that mark, and if JT continues at a pace of more than a PPG, someone will.

    Lots of teams either have the cap space or can make it pretty easily, especially if the cap goes up 3-4 million.

  4. #44
    Russian Meddling BSBH Rookie
    josh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    24,357
    Rep Power
    250
    You make room for a guy like Tavares.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  5. #45
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,992
    Rep Power
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Pittsburgh is a top heavy team.
    Pit was the same "TOP HEAVY team" in:

    2010
    2011
    2012
    2013
    2014
    2015

    Yet did NOT make the Finals any of those 6 consecutive years.

    With the same 2 guys they did in 2016 and 2017. What was the difference Josh?

    Hockey is a team game. Your attempt to change the argument is misguided. Pitt did not have a terrible roster, not even close. They had no Carey's playing on their top 9 nor were they littered with a bunch of waiver pickups. What the Rangers need has nothing to do with your assessment of Pitt.

  6. #46
    Russian Meddling BSBH Rookie
    josh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    24,357
    Rep Power
    250
    now they need to win every season for an opinion to be stated? come on...
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  7. #47
    Senior Member Bantam Division
    Long live the King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    2,116
    Rep Power
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    That is ridiculous. You said of the team that just won their 2nd straight Cup, "The Pens roster was terrible. Their top line has similar players to Paul Carey. Their defense was a conglomerate of waiver wire pickups, busts and fill-ins."

    Listed were 11 forwards, 5 defenders and 2 goalies with some numbers. None were waiver pickups or fill-ins. They are all better than Carey, the definition of a fringe NHL/AHLer. Take the two best offensive players (let alone centers who are also superstars) from any team and production is likely to drop. That is not an indictment of the team or the rest of the roster.

    Your assertion that there are not any impressive players beyond Crosby, Malkin and Sheary is grotesquely absurd. Josh that is not a credible analysis of their roster. It is so off base it is not worth writing a roster breakdown.
    Sheary last year, .87 ppg. This year .37. Guentzel last year, .83 ppg. This year .48. There's really no arguing that Crosby and Malkin have a major positive impact on everyone they play with. The Pens also shuffle any number of guys through their top 2 lines until they catch lightning in a bottle. Hags right after the trade .73 ppg. Since .36 and .27. Hornqvist numbers are best in Pitt. Same with Kunitz. James Neal, 4 years in Pitt .92 ppg everywhere else .63.


    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Did it ever occur to you that Tavares numbers are higher this year because he has guys like Bailey and Anders Lee and now Barzal and others on the PP, instead of Strome, Moulson or Okposo? Or that the Isles are playing a high powered offensive game (no D or goaltending) that also helps JT's point totals? Other factors matter, this is the NHL, having 2 stars doesn't automatically win Cups. And JT or McJesus won't automatically have a career years if they play with Paul Carey.
    I don't even know where to go with this. This is Bailey's 10th year in the league. Last year was his best year at .68 ppg. That was also the first time he ever topped .60. Now with him all of a sudden at 1.15, its him boosting Tavares' numbers? Lee is a 30 goal scorer because of Tavares. Travares made Moulson a 30 goal scorer. Moulson has score 52 goals in in 317 games since leaving.

  8. #48
    Moderator Junior Division
    Future's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    6,520
    Rep Power
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Pit was the same "TOP HEAVY team" in:

    2010
    2011
    2012
    2013
    2014
    2015

    Yet did NOT make the Finals any of those 6 consecutive years.

    With the same 2 guys they did in 2016 and 2017. What was the difference Josh?

    Hockey is a team game. Your attempt to change the argument is misguided. Pitt did not have a terrible roster, not even close. They had no Carey's playing on their top 9 nor were they littered with a bunch of waiver pickups. What the Rangers need has nothing to do with your assessment of Pitt.
    I think you're kind of missing the point. Pitt's roster isn't full of Paul Careys, but they really only have three top-six talents. Two of them make everyone else around them better. That roster, without 87 and 71, is trash. But, when guys like Sheary, Hornquist and Guentzel can be complimentary, they look a lot better than they really are.

    It's the same thing with Lee, Moulson, Okposo, Bailey, and really everyone else that has ever played with JT.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Bantam Division
    Long live the King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    2,116
    Rep Power
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Pit was the same "TOP HEAVY team" in:

    2010
    2011
    2012
    2013
    2014
    2015

    Yet did NOT make the Finals any of those 6 consecutive years.

    With the same 2 guys they did in 2016 and 2017. What was the difference Josh?

    Hockey is a team game. Your attempt to change the argument is misguided. Pitt did not have a terrible roster, not even close. They had no Carey's playing on their top 9 nor were they littered with a bunch of waiver pickups. What the Rangers need has nothing to do with your assessment of Pitt.
    Fleury couldn't stop a beach ball...

  10. #50
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,992
    Rep Power
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    It only takes 1 to break that mark, and if JT continues at a pace of more than a PPG, someone will.

    Lots of teams either have the cap space or can make it pretty easily, especially if the cap goes up 3-4 million.
    There is a difference between being able to make the space versus whether a GM thinks it is in their competitive best interest of the roster (longterm) to relegate 15 mil for him. I don't think exceeding McDavid's AAV this quick is what any owner wants to do. Maybe I'm too much of a skeptic/cynic when it comes to the owner's wanting to manage salary escalation.

    Guess, I'm imagining more discord among the owners and maybe even GMs about blowing out salary structures. Many teams are trying to maintain a structure and money what many of them care about most. Plus, not every team wants to be cap maxed every year and the ones that do, are already. Well, we will find out soon enough.

  11. #51
    Senior Member Squirt Division Sod16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    341
    Rep Power
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Tavares is having a monster year, and completely changing the trend he was on.
    Correct. The previous two season were not what the four before that were. I still think you take a serious run at him, but there's a good chance that the winner ends up paying a $7.5 million player $12 million a year.

  12. #52
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division
    Fatfrancesa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    836
    Rep Power
    23
    So if this is true why shouldn’t every team just hand the keys to Tavares? He’s certainly a top center. Say Toronto could land him, why would they need to worry about resigning anyone other than Matthews? Having those two would be equal to what Pittsburgh has. If they just fill in the roster with afterthoughts that should be good enough.

  13. #53
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,992
    Rep Power
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Fleury couldn't stop a beach ball...
    Ha ha, yeah Fleury sux. He came back from injury during the 2015/16 season and proceeded to help them go on a 3 month tear during which they had the best record in the league and he was lights out every night. BTW, Vegas and their fans think he can't stop a beach ball either.

  14. #54
    Russian Meddling BSBH Rookie
    josh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    24,357
    Rep Power
    250
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfrancesa View Post
    So if this is true why shouldn’t every team just hand the keys to Tavares? He’s certainly a top center. Say Toronto could land him, why would they need to worry about resigning anyone other than Matthews? Having those two would be equal to what Pittsburgh has. If they just fill in the roster with afterthoughts that should be good enough.
    You do realize that Toronto will most certainly be bidding for Tavares services. In fact, they are leading the rumor wagon, as far as where he will sign.
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  15. #55
    Moderator Junior Division
    Future's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    6,520
    Rep Power
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    There is a difference between being able to make the space versus whether a GM thinks it is in their competitive best interest of the roster (longterm) to relegate 15 mil for him. I don't think exceeding McDavid's AAV this quick is what any owner wants to do. Maybe I'm too much of a skeptic/cynic when it comes to the owner's wanting to manage salary escalation.

    Guess, I'm imagining more discord among the owners and maybe even GMs about blowing out salary structures. Many teams are trying to maintain a structure and money what many of them care about most. Plus, not every team wants to be cap maxed every year and the ones that do, are already. Well, we will find out soon enough.
    Signing Tavares is about the short-term and winning a cup. Any GM considering signing him doesn't really care about the cap ramifications of his contract in 2024. A team like Toronto could pretty easily justify trading Kadri and, one of Marner/Nylander to make room for JT an the massive return those guys would bring. Matthews-JT in the middle basically gives you the same structure as the Pens.

    It doesn't really matter if there's discord or not - 30 owners might be fine with keeping salaries down, but 1 who thinks JT is the piece that gets them the Cup trumps all of that.

  16. #56
    Moderator Junior Division
    Future's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    6,520
    Rep Power
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Ha ha, yeah Fleury sux. He came back from injury during the 2015/16 season and proceeded to help them go on a 3 month tear during which they had the best record in the league and he was lights out every night. BTW, Vegas and their fans think he can't stop a beach ball either.
    Fleury was bad in the playoffs 4 years straight. He had sv% of .891, .899, .833, and .883 from 10-13. During the first Cup run he only posted a .908.

  17. #57
    Senior Member Bantam Division
    Long live the King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    2,116
    Rep Power
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Ha ha, yeah Fleury sux. He came back from injury during the 2015/16 season and proceeded to help them go on a 3 month tear during which they had the best record in the league and he was lights out every night. BTW, Vegas and their fans think he can't stop a beach ball either.
    Your sarcasm is misplaced. Here's Fleury during the playoffs in the years you mention...

    Year Wins Losses SV% GAA
    2010 7 6 .891 2.78
    2011 3 4 .899 2.52
    2012 2 4 .831 4.63
    2013 2 2 .883 2.52
    2014 7 6 .915 2.40
    2015 1 4 .927 2.12

    I can point to 1, maybe 2, of those years and say it wasn't Fleury's fault. The rest are the reason he is in Vegas and Matt Murray is in Pitt.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,992
    Rep Power
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    I think you're kind of missing the point. Pitt's roster isn't full of Paul Careys, but they really only have three top-six talents. Two of them make everyone else around them better. That roster, without 87 and 71, is trash. But, when guys like Sheary, Hornquist and Guentzel can be complimentary, they look a lot better than they really are.

    It's the same thing with Lee, Moulson, Okposo, Bailey, and really everyone else that has ever played with JT.
    Not missing the point, I was responding to Josh's assertions. He said their Cup roster is full of Careys, etc.

    Take the 2 best skaters off any team and their roster as a whole looks like trash in comparison. Also you folks are under rating the youth, speed and role players they brought in.

    Adding Kessel, Daley, Hags, Murray and then injecting Sheary, Guentzal and Rust (all the same year) was the significant difference between the last 2 Cup years and the 6 years prior.

    Bailey, Lee and Barzal are far better than Strome, Okposo and Moulson. It is not the same thing for everyone who has played with JT, even if his linemates all have better numbers with him. There is a reason JT is having a career year.

  19. #59
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,992
    Rep Power
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Your sarcasm is misplaced. Here's Fleury during the playoffs in the years you mention...

    Year Wins Losses SV% GAA
    2010 7 6 .891 2.78
    2011 3 4 .899 2.52
    2012 2 4 .831 4.63
    2013 2 2 .883 2.52
    2014 7 6 .915 2.40
    2015 1 4 .927 2.12

    I can point to 1, maybe 2, of those years and say it wasn't Fleury's fault. The rest are the reason he is in Vegas and Matt Murray is in Pitt.
    Ok, I want to back pedal here. You weren't saying Fleury sucks overall, just that he hurt them in multiple playoffs. There is truth to that. Excuse my sarcasm there.

  20. #60
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,992
    Rep Power
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    You do realize that Toronto will most certainly be bidding for Tavares services. In fact, they are leading the rumor wagon, as far as where he will sign.
    You do realize that you guys are basically saying JT is not only going to exceed McJesus's salary and AAV, but essentially he is going to become the first max salary in the league ever? Done deal.

    And Josh, you think that a talented Leaf team is going to blow their whole salary structure (with all the big contract negotiations coming up) and the league's structure by offering JT 15 mil AAV? You think Lou and Shanny are going to not only want to spend wildly on JT, but explain how it all fits to the whole board of Rogers?

    Everyone needs to take a breath here. You guys are hyperventilating, but the owners probably will not. A Toews like salary will be in the offering, but I think we are getting ahead of ourselves if you think he is going to exceed Toew's salary by ~45% and McDavid's by ~30%.
    Last edited by Giacomin; 02-01-2018 at 12:45 PM.

Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •