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Thread: Rangers Should Look at Options on UFAs, May Be Willing to Listen on Zucc, McD

  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    I mean, who cares what they're listed as, they both play wing. Nylander probably could be a top-6 center, but Reinhart has been bad when he's been a C. He's not even a top-6 wing IN BUFFALO. Assuming that either one of those guys, even Nylander, is going to be a top C is a pretty big risk when you're trading two of your best players.

    I honestly don't know how you can think Reinhart is worth Miller. That trade makes your team immediately worse.
    Similar to how I donít know how you can think Reinhart is worth DeíAngelo and a midround pick I guess.

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangers4Life View Post
    Similar to how I don’t know how you can think Reinhart is worth De’Angelo and a midround pick I guess.
    The difference is that Miller is a known quantity who is better than Reinhart.

    Reinhart is high-ceiling unknown, as is DeAngelo, and the pick just makes it easier to justify. That's why it makes sense. You're trading unknowns for unkowns. And, just at face value, it's first-round bust for first-round bust. Whether Buffalo goes for it, who knows, but DeAngelo and Reinhart are far closer in value than Reinhart and Miller.

    Edit: The more I think about it, the more I probably wouldn't do it, because I like ADA's game. But that's probably where the value is.
    Last edited by Future; 01-24-2018 at 12:57 PM.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    The difference is that Miller is a known quantity who is better than Reinhart.

    Reinhart is high-ceiling unknown, as is DeAngelo, and the pick just makes it easier to justify. That's why it makes sense. You're trading unknowns for unkowns. And, just at face value, it's first-round bust for first-round bust. Whether Buffalo goes for it, who knows, but DeAngelo and Reinhart are far closer in value than Reinhart and Miller.
    Reinhart (22 y/o) is averaging slightly more per game than Miller (24 y/o) over their careers thus far. I don't see how Miller is better or De'Angelo (22 y/o) and his 50 NHL games are a closer comparison to Reinhart (22 y/o).
    Last edited by Rangers4Life; 01-24-2018 at 12:59 PM.

  4. #284
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    Itís not an unknown. Unknown to us maybe because we donít watch every shift these guys take. Reinhardt has been in the nhl for a couple of years and heís already scored 20 on a year. His flaws and strengths are very much known by scouts. The ceiling part is of course in the eye of the beholder. We donít even know if the rangers like him at all. Apparently they liked DeAngelo where that thought is not unanimous among scouts.

    When you trade for a young player you trust your scouts and personal people. Thatís why you pay them. Just like the draft itís not throwing darts at a draft board. Of course years later it looks like that but there are all kinds of reasons why players live up to their potential or donít. Just like players there are good and bad scouts.

    Making judgements on players based on a stat sheet alone is ridiculous. There is no way to quantify all the intangibles that produce those stats. Line mates alone and team structure are huge.

    If the rangers decide to make any trades you have to trust their personal people to make a good move. Very much mixed results the past couple of years. But you have to trust them

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangers4Life View Post
    Reinhart (22 y/o) is averaging slightly more per game than Miller (24 y/o) over their careers thus far. I don't see how Miller is better or De'Angelo (22 y/o) and his 50 NHL games are a closer comparison to Reinhart (22 y/o).
    Slightly more what? PPG? Because that is wildly skewed by Miller's first two years, when he played on the 4th line. In the 9 games that Reinhart did that, he had 1 point.

    In their three seasons averaging at least 15:00, Miller is at .60 PPG with an average ATOI of 15:56 while Reinhart is at .53 with an average ATOI of 16:45. So in almost :50 more per game, Reinhart produces .07 PPG fewer than Miller. And, 34% of Reinhart's points come on the PP, while Miller only has 11%. At 5v5, the two aren't even in the same league.

    Plus, Miller can actually win a puck battle, forecheck, and doesn't get knocked off the puck when someone breathes on him. Reinhart doesn't do any of that, he's Stepan lite.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Slightly more what? PPG? Because that is wildly skewed by Miller's first two years, when he played on the 4th line. In the 9 games that Reinhart did that, he had 1 point.

    In their three seasons averaging at least 15:00, Miller is at .60 PPG with an average ATOI of 15:56 while Reinhart is at .53 with an average ATOI of 16:45. So in almost :50 more per game, Reinhart produces .07 PPG fewer than Miller. And, 34% of Reinhart's points come on the PP, while Miller only has 11%. At 5v5, the two aren't even in the same league.

    Plus, Miller can actually win a puck battle, forecheck, and doesn't get knocked off the puck when someone breathes on him. Reinhart doesn't do any of that, he's Stepan lite.
    Even better, we need to bolster the PP, thanks Sammy!

    It only took Reinhart 9 games to make the jump while it took Miller 2 years. You fail to acknowledge the age factor, two years less experience and stats are still almost identical. I'll hold off on commenting on Reinhart's physical play for the puck because I don't watch Buffalo's games which I venture to guess you don't either.

    Either way we can go back and forth all day on this but one thing is for sure, De'Angelo isn't even in the conversation.

    Agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Rangers4Life; 01-24-2018 at 01:47 PM.

  7. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangers4Life View Post
    Even better, we need to bolster the PP, thanks Sammy!

    It only took Reinhart 9 games to make the jump while it took Miller 2 years. You fail to acknowledge the age factor, two years less experience and stats are still almost identical. I'll hold off on commenting on Reinhart's physical play for the puck because I don't watch Buffalo's games which I venture to guess you don't either.

    Either way we can go back and forth all day on this but one this for sure, De'Angelo isn't even in the conversation.

    Agree to disagree.
    It took Reinhart 9 games because the Sabres only had like 3 NHL forwards on their roster. He wasn't any more ready at 20 than Miller.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    They really need to move on from Miller the more I think about it.
    I was hoping there was a mid game trade or interest, and that was part of the reason behind the benching.

    Vesey has been invisible. That's a guy I was expecting to step up and show some character. Fuckin invisible.

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    It took Reinhart 9 games because the Sabres only had like 3 NHL forwards on their roster. He wasn't any more ready at 20 than Miller.
    Well, he was also a hyped top 4 pick on a club that was baren. Both top 4 'Sams' of that draft are disapointments.

    As for Buff, upstate we get more of their games then the Isles or Devils. The fans and writers seem to agree Reinhart should be traded. They think they've seen what he is and can be and they are not hopeful that he will progress much.

    I kinda agreed, but liked what I've seen in his last few outings. He is good with his stick and you can see the skills. Maybe he keeps improving, but it is a risk. He is soft (in that he gets pushed off the puck, the opposite of Miller) and a bad forechecker. He can set up plays like a C, but can he handle the D role? A bit of the same problem with Miller, but right now Miller is the better player.

  10. #290
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    I value Miller more than Reinhart
    Lias Andersson for #AJT2019

  11. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Well, he was also a hyped top 4 pick on a club that was baren. Both top 4 'Sams' of that draft are disapointments.

    As for Buff, upstate we get more of their games then the Isles or Devils. The fans and writers seem to agree Reinhart should be traded. They think they've seen what he is and can be and they are not hopeful that he will progress much.

    I kinda agreed, but liked what I've seen in his last few outings. He is good with his stick and you can see the skills. Maybe he keeps improving, but it is a risk. He is soft (in that he gets pushed off the puck, the opposite of Miller) and a bad forechecker. He can set up plays like a C, but can he handle the D role? A bit of the same problem with Miller, but right now Miller is the better player.
    Yea, I'm in Rochester and the Sabres are all that are on MSG on Time Warner, and we're seeing the same thing (for the first time, I think, lol). I think he can be more, but his situation has just kind of soured there. Happens to a lot of players.

  12. #292
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    Move Miller back to wing and he's a different player. Imagine what could happen if he benefited from an effective center? I still like this kid.

    Vesey? Like this kid too. This young pup still learning how to play the NHL game -- give him another summer of conditioning and another year's playing experience and he'll blossom even more. I would hate to see him develop into a strong talent elsewhere.

  13. #293
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    Vesey is cheap, no point getting rid of him unless he's part of something big.

    Good point on Miller, too. I've been riding him but having to play center could be a huge part of his struggles.

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
    Vesey is cheap, no point getting rid of him unless he's part of something big.

    Good point on Miller, too. I've been riding him but having to play center could be a huge part of his struggles.
    Agree with you both. I wanna see Vesey another year. No point in moving him unless he is part of a package to bring a big time player.

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4EverRangerFrank View Post
    Move Miller back to wing and he's a different player. Imagine what could happen if he benefited from an effective center? I still like this kid.
    Miller moved back to wing and Hayes back at center and...BAM! Ok, they aren't going to produce like that every night, but boy they look good together and Miller is such a better player on wing, especially when he plays with energy.

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